19 Feb 2016 21:08:29
While I defended Moyes' right for more time in the job, I often criticised the effort of the players, who in my opinion, were letting him, and the club down.

I'm not going to have double-standards now.

I didn't want LVG in charge, because I thought him wrong for the club, and outdated in his footballing ethos. I warned that the negative football produced by his Dutch side, would be replicated at Utd. But in our desire to see the end of Moyes, some of us hailed him as the man Utd needed to get back to our rightful place amongst the premiership elite.

I backed him when he arrived, and hoped things might turn out different when he arrived. It wasn't to be.

But for all his faults, the complete abdication of responsibility among the players - not just last night, but never more tellingly than last night - has been a complete disgrace.

While it's too late for LVG, the players can still redeem themselves, starting on Monday. Otherwise, I'll shed no tears when they're shipped out by the next manager.

Poor form or inexperience can be easily forgiven, but lack of effort, when they pull on a red shirt, cannot.

1.) 19 Feb 2016
19 Feb 2016 22:06:56
Interesting article in the guardian claiming that a group of influential senior players have lost faith in van Gaal and want Jose to be given the job asap. So if it's a case that players now feel that they don't need to bother until they get their new manager, it's disgraceful behaviour.

Ultimately, I suspect that it's a combination of a number of things for most of our player: poor form, lack of belief in the manager, fear of making mistakes, frustration, etc. I don't think it's necessarily a lack of effort, more that everyone is playing far below their capabilities and we lack strong characters/ leaders on the pitch and in the dugout.

2.) 19 Feb 2016
19 Feb 2016 23:56:00
Fair enough, Danny. I know there are other factors, especially the, 'fear of mistakes', bit. 'Lack of effort' was maybe the wrong way to put it, suggesting they're simply not running around enough.

Like I said, I can forgive poor form easily enough, the guys are only human. I just can't forgive any player not trying for the manager, whether they like him or not. They're playing for the club and the fans, not the manager. I know it's very idealistic - as fans, we'd all bust a gut to play for Utd, no matter who the manager was - but simple personal pride should ensure they're trying their best, no matter what the circumstances.

3.) 20 Feb 2016
20 Feb 2016 01:02:12
And I didn't have you down as a fluffy, pinko-hippy, Guardian reader.

4.) 20 Feb 2016
20 Feb 2016 05:25:02
I agree Stevie but I doubt it's a conscious decision, I don't think the players have decided not to try. Like it or not some of them can be sensitive souls and if the environment is not right, or they aren't clear what is required, or they are constantly worried about being dropped then it shows in their play. It's clear that they are not putting everything on the line for the Manager though.

5.) 20 Feb 2016
20 Feb 2016 06:47:48
i think there are a lot of players just not playing there normal game . the whole thing is that slow it seem hard to step it up.

6.) 20 Feb 2016
20 Feb 2016 06:51:14
And that's what annoys me, Tony. Whatever you or I think of LVG, the players are employed by the club, not him.

I don't particularly like my immediate boss. I think they're petty, over officious and a little anal, if truth be told. But I still take enough pride in my job to make sure I do my best regardless of their quite obvious limitations. I can go home, look in the mirror, and sleep easy, knowing I didn't deliberately let anyone down.

Maybe I'm just an old fart, but that's the very least I expect from men who are being paid a small fortune to represent my club.

It's easy to criticise LVG, and I've been vocal enough with my criticisms of him, but that doesn't entitle the players to think they can hide behind all the flak coming his way.

If I see one of them kissing the badge, especially after some of the recent fraudulent performances, I won't be responsible for my actions.

7.) 20 Feb 2016
20 Feb 2016 08:03:20
That's a really good point Stevie, you are indeed an old fart.

8.) 20 Feb 2016
20 Feb 2016 08:11:56
I agree entirely Nou99, I argued for Moyes to be given time also argued against us getting LVG, don't seem to win many arguments lol. Season ticket holder and I've only been to 5 matches this year + my obligatory away game with my home town Stoke. Life's too short to waste travelling down from Scotland to watch boring football. I've almost packed in posting I just don't want to continually post bad about my team.

9.) 20 Feb 2016
20 Feb 2016 09:42:47
These players left have no right at all to dictate who manages them. If they don't like it, leave our great club and go and play for Newcastle where You can turn it in every few weeks. It's demanded every game at our club with maximum effort. That's the difference when you step up to United. Most of them can't hack it currently.

Excluding the youth players brought in as it's unfair to judge so soon but barring De Gea, Martial, Rooney and Shaw I couldn't care less if the rest are shipped out.

10.) 20 Feb 2016
20 Feb 2016 09:55:44
Really Stevie? The only reason I support United is because they're the Reds. But you're right, you are an old fart.

Like AJH I doubt many, if any, of the players take to the pitch thinking they won't bother. But when players start to question what their manager is asking them to do, it will always impact how well they play. Like the rest of us, if we think the orders of our betters are counterintuitive, we find it harder to carry them out. The sad truth is that van Gaal hasn't been able to convince players that his philosophy and methods work, and this has created a cycle of failure: players don't trust the philosophy and don't play as well as they can, and this reinforces their belief that it doesn't work.

This, in turn, has been exacerbated by van Gaal's refusal to try a different approach. So when players like Rooney and Lingard, for instance, think the club has turned a corner by playing with more freedom, van Gaal immediately counteracts this by stressing that nothing has changed. This must be very frustrating for players because when things don't work it's their fault for not carrying out the philosophy, but when things do it's because the philosophy is being implemented properly. In other words, van Gaal's ego is preventing any collective solution to the problems because a solution implies something is wrong with his approach.

As far as I'm concerned our issues have been building for over a year, but have really come to a head during the last few months because the players are now fully convinced that van Gaal's approach won't work, and that he will never change his approach. The players are obviously still responsible because they're the ones out their on the pitch every week, but I can fully understand why they're finding it difficult to perform anywhere near their best. Having said that, the majority of the squad should be on probation when a new manager arrives.