10 Sep 2017 21:30:29
In Mikhitarian we have potentially one of the best players in the league, if not Europe. He can be that good for us. He was phenomenal in Germany in his last season. This year alone he is one assist off Coutinho highest ever PL season assist total, after just 4 games. He has what, 5/ 6 assists already? He's quite capable of 15-20 assists and at least 10 goals. But if we're to see the best of Miki he has to play number 10. He needs to be central. He's totally ineffective out wide. Lukaku benefits also from having Miki playing centrally with him. I also think Pogba and the team as a whole are much more effective with a 2 man midfield. I love Hererra, he was our best player last season, but Matic and Pogba has more balance and stability.

So for me, we need to stick with Matic and Pogba, Miki number 10, with two from 3 of Rashford/ Martial and Mata. I feel we would have won yesterday has we stuck with that team. Having said that, the defending from both Bailly and Jones was uncharacteristically poor. Definatly feel it's our best 11 and formation tho, Miki is capable of being the best player in the league is we play to his strengths.

1.) 10 Sep 2017
10 Sep 2017 21:47:02
I agree Stand. I realise we can't win every game but I was disappointed yesterday, we could and should have won. Defensive mistakes let us down but if we had been more dominant than the result would not have been in doubt. Having scored 10, conceded 0, I was surprised Jose changed the team when more of the same was what was needed. Pogba and Matic on the middle, Miki at 10, Lukaku up front, fit the rest in around them ( and I'm a huge Rashford fan)

2.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 00:14:05
Mourinho unnecessarily tinkered with team. he should have kept to a winning formula.

3.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 02:11:21
Does anyone not find Miki extremely infuriating? The game tends to pass him by a times. I'm not knocking him because he has fantastic qualities, and he shows them with his assists. However, for me a player who possesses the qualities he has should be able to do it for 90 minutes, and perhaps that will come when he plays centrally. The only other thing I think he needs to work on is his shooting. Especially from range it can be very poor. I hope to see more from him this year, because his talent can't be questioned.
Caolán.

4.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 08:21:34
there were numerous times Matic picked the ball up and looked up to find nothing available when we played 4-3-3 miki tends to drift into the middle and with pogba and herrera also in there we lacked options. Once we went back to 4-2-3-1 we had options infront of matic and that showed.

We have to keep this formation. I would only play 4-3-3 when we have the correct full-backs for that system. Ones that offer the space going forward that we naturally lack.

5.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 09:32:31
If we would have kept it the same, people would say we should have played an extra man in midfield if we didn't win the game.

6.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 10:06:27
No they wouldn't sepp. Why would we need a midfield 3 against the mighty stoke?

7.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 10:22:36
This is why I said all summer we needed to sign a genuine wide player. Its also why I think Griezmann isn't needed.

8.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 10:23:16
Caolan, that is the nature of No.10's. They need to be able to drift in and out of play to find the space and exploit it. That is one of the reasons I feel England has never had the same love affair with No.10's as most of the rest of the world. From Argentina to Italy there is a passion for that clever allusive No.10. But in Britain we want hard workers, lots of running and charging about. Physical players.

For me Rooney was never a great No.10 because he was too British. He wanted to be involved all the time and spent too much time chasing the ball and not drifting into the right spaces at the right time.

Pogba to a certain extent suffers from the same issue when he plays at No.10. He gets involved too much and as such is always marked or picked up quickly. His size also works against him in that respect, as even though he is nimble for a guy his size he hasn't got that same ability to wriggle free of his marker as a smaller more agile player could.

Mkhitaryan is ideal for the No.10 role, he has pace and technical ability as well as great vision and understanding of the game.
Pogba is a box to box player and suits playing as that player who arrives later into the box as the second or third line of attack.
Matic is a perfect holding midfielder, he shields the defence and gives Pogba license to roam forward.

That should be our first choice midfield and I don't think we should move away from that unless forced to.

If we had more offensive full backs I could see the option of moving toward a 3412 type formation keeping our midfield of Matic and Pogba with Mkhitaryan at No.10, but allowing a front two of Lukaku with either Rashford or Martial partnering him. If Shaw can recapture his best form we could even see this formation this season.

9.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 11:15:09
Shappy your last paragraph says it all, exactly what we need.

10.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 11:39:53
Good post as always Shappy I always look forward to reading your opinions.

{Ed004's Note - I don't know if I can ever recall Mourinho using a player like Mkhitaryan as a number 10 though in the past. He seems to prefer a second striker like Lampard/Deco/Sneijder etc who will score 20 odd goals and who are constantly involved. Someone like Ali would be perfect for Jose in that position. I think if Griezmann had been signed he would have played off Lukaku with Mkhitaryan given a license to drift inside and the full back providing the width. Furthermore, I think that would suit Mkhitaryan down to the ground. If he isn't restricted to the wings it gives him an easier chance of finding space inbetween defensive lines. Would probably result in the left side player being required to hold the width a bit more (with Martial/Rashford both being perfectly capable of doing that)}

11.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 11:47:39
Totally understand that shappy! Rooney was an awful number 10 because he just wanted to come deep and play Hollywood crossfield passes. I think miki has an extra gear or two to go up and he will be even more dangerous, hope we see it!

{Ed004's Note - He really needs to improve his consistency and shielding of the ball though}

12.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 12:35:20
12 goals to 4 games 2 conceded the overreaction and over analysis to a draw with stoke is ridiculous.

We didn't play great, it happens move on.

13.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 12:36:23
By the way people spent have the summer going on about playing 433 .
A formation we have always looked a bit flat in .

14.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 14:08:47
Ed004, didn't Mourinho play with a No.10 similar to Mkhitaryan with his last Chelsea side? 4231, Matic and Fabregas in midfield with Costa up front and three of Hazard, Pedro, Willian, Oscar or Ramires playing behind the striker.

I think he will look for goals from all over the pitch. Pogba, Mata, Mkhitaryan, Rashford, Martial and Lukaku will all be expected to get into or close to double figures.

Jred, I said before I think most people looking to play 433 did so to try and fit Herrera into the line up.
Also I don't totally agree that we have always looked flat when playing 433, Sir Alex won the UCL with a United side that played 433. It was one of our most entertaining sides. Also LvG's best games at at the club came when the team also lined up in a 433. I do concede that we don't look as sharp in a 433 under Mourinho, but I feel that has less to do with where people stand and more to do with the tactics preferred by Mourinho. Like you have pointed out before maybe our full backs don't get forward as much not because they can't but because Mourinho doesn't want them to.

{Ed004's Note - All those players mentioned contributed far more to general play than Mkhitaryan has been doing though. I still expect him to be moved onto the right hand side when we make more signings or potentially benched if more than one attacking option is signed. I disagree on the fullback point slightly. Shaw himself confirmed last season that Jose wants both fullbacks to attack - just not at the same time without cover. And even this season we have seen Blind attacking crosses from Valencia. I just don't think we have the fullbacks necessary to attack efficiently and effectively with.}

15.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 15:11:20
Shappy
I argued against 433 all last season before matic .
1 game against stoke and everyone has suddenly changed there mind .

16.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 14:36:49
Ed004, you think we should move Miki to the right or bench him with new signing? Why exactly? 5 assists this season.

{Ed004's Note - This is just hypothetical. If the long term plan is to sign Griezmann then I can't see us spending 100 million on a player not to play him in his best position. Griezmann would play centrally behind Lukaku. I reckon Miki will then play on the right side with a license to drift with Valencia/new signing providing the width. Similar to what we have seen this season with Mata. Currently he is our best option as a number 10 and I would continue to play him there accordingly. However, I think he needs to work on improving his consistency during games as his assist count is keeping him out of the firing line currently}

17.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 15:12:40
Flat under Jose in 433.

18.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 15:32:49
We have scored more goals than any other team in the league so far .
Only conceded 2 the least in the league .
That is a great balance between attack and defence a trait you see a lot in a Jose team .

Very disciplined manager Jose I'm sure tactically the players are doing exactly what the manager is asking of them, if it's not the 235 formation many would like .

Tony v was prob the best rb in the league last season looks 100% Jose player . I think he has been hit by the curse of being at United to long, some fans get bored of a player after a while and want an exciting shinny new toy .

19.) 11 Sep 2017
11 sep 2017 15:22:33
ed004, mourinho wants one midfielder holding and one full back not getting forward so along with the centre backs there is always 4 players staying in defence. the in vogue idea is to either have a back three or have a sitting midfielder then allow both full backs to get forward at the same time . the idea being you have an extra man in attack and you can easily create an overload and get in behind the opposition defence. mourinho is far too pragmatic to be doing that. nothing wrong with that if he gets the results, the danger comes when if everyone else is playing a more entertaining offensive brand of football and you are playing a more pragmatic style and not winning titles people lose patience with it very quickly.

jred, i know you were, but that's hyperbole for you. now you get to sit back and say i told you so. well at least until we win a game by playing 433, then you'll have it rammed back down your throat. lol.

{Ed004's Note - He will apply that approach when it comes to playing the top teams or difficult teams away but against teams like West Ham etc at home we have allowed both full backs to venture forward with 3 players sitting to watch out for the counter.}

20.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 17:52:43
Shaps
We will win plenty of games in 433 but we never look quite as good imo especially if you look at games over a season and not make a knee jerk reaction to 1 game .

People on here change there minds like the wind.

21.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 17:59:30
Jred, your always insinuating what other posters will say or want, as if every post on here is slagging off the team and management. In reality I've barely seen any criticism for a long time. Yesterday you posted about a massive overrraction. Again I don't think that happened. We can be unhappy when we have dropped points. Did you think we played well, was the team selection correct in your opinion? Was jones at fault for soft equaliser or not? Tony v was very good last season, but let's not be silly here, his crossing is at best of time abysmal, and so if a better player can come in maybe next summer, why wouldn't the fans want to see the team improve.

22.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 20:05:29
Stand
Tony is a rb first job defend which he does .
Not that many fullback in the league are that productive at attacking, that's why there full backs .
He was prob the best rb in the league last season in fact one of our best players and as he has said Jose is a big fan . I am myself, but like I said before people have got bored of him . I'm sure any fancy name would come in and be amazing every game, or maybe not.


Of course there has been a overaction, we drew 1 game in 4, won 3 scored 12 conceded 2 .
And we need to buy xyz change formation etc etc.

We are not going to win every game or play great in every game but you don't throw the baby out with the bath water because you draw a game .

As for team selection, we can't win every game, we could of played a different formation and got beat but it's one game in a very good start to the season that so far sees us sitting top .


As for replacing Tony v, for a player some fans consider better, well could we not say that about every player? Like miki in your op .

Attacking full backs are just the flavour of the month for some people , Jose will get the balance right and as we have seen so far is doing so.
We win 4.0 and people where posting we need our full backs to attack more we need a winger . We won 4.0

People have made there mind up before a ball is kicked and are just looking to justify there opinion .

4 games 3 wins, 1 draw, 12 goals scored more than any one else, 2 conceded, less than any one else, top of the league.
What's the problem.

23.) 12 Sep 2017
12 Sep 2017 00:00:49
Again, answer my question, if there is an upgrade on Tony v next summer why not go ahead and sign it? Is his crossing good enough. Are you satisfied with his final ball? Nobody on here is fed up with him or got bored of him, your making things up again. As for the overreaction there wasn't one. Posters voiced their dissapointment at a poor performance and questioned changing a team and formation that has won the first 3 games. All valid points.

24.) 12 Sep 2017
12 Sep 2017 08:32:21
Stand
So would you buy 11 players and upgrade the entire first team?
Should we replace bailly if there was a upgrade available?
Or in your Op above should we replace Miki?
People are bored with Tony and want a fancy new name .

And there was a overaction there always is, look at your post straight after the match.

"Maybe a few will get a bit of perspective of where we're at now. 3 good wins was nice but we're not the finished article by any stretch. "

Let's ignore the 3 good wins, we are not the finished article because if 1 draw against stoke.
Teams are never the finished article.
If we bought a brand new back 4 people would them want some new faces (upgrade) with our attackers.

25.) 12 Sep 2017
12 Sep 2017 10:16:55
Stand
Sorry didn't answer you question in all that .
If Tony plays as well this season as he did last season I wouldn't change him .
Knows the club, the dressing room and the league and if playing well why would you change him?
And who with, every transfer is a risk.

26.) 12 Sep 2017
12 Sep 2017 13:12:50
Jred why would I change Bailly who's our best cb easily? I'd change Smalling and rojo and blind tho. If the players are available and want to come to Manchester.

After winning 3 games people were on here saying we will win the next 4 and we're going to win the league. Imo as my prediction in AJH comp shows, I think it's highly unlikely we will go from 6th to league champions. Some people got carried away with 3 results.

27.) 12 Sep 2017
12 Sep 2017 15:46:47
Stand
By your logic tho if there is a upgrade on bailly why not go for it?