10 Dec 2017 19:30:33
We lost to the better team today but this has been obvious over the last 10 years whilst loading debt on the club and ignoring the best players, pretending there is no value. Today only shows City had a plan, a structure, from the infrastructure, the manager, the whole club whilst from the top we haven't an obvious plan.

We lost but sit back and realise the reality is Ronaldo's replacement plays right back. Let that sink in. Would Madrid accept that? We need a structural improvement not just buying better players.

1.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 19:44:11
I think it's more a case city have pep .
It's not like they have dominated Europe or the EPL for 10 years is it .

2.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 19:57:24
Jred, giant all about pep. They have a few handy players as well.

3.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 19:59:03
Two scrappy goals and a wonder save from their keeper. I'm not quite ready to give up of the club yet. Nice story though Red Man.

4.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 20:00:44
Today showed they have a structure and a plan? Just showed me that they know how to win ugly, go down and fake injury and foul when the opposition get the ball.

5.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 19:50:58
And our left back was a right winger.
Our midfield consists of pogba fellaini matic Herrera and Carrick. Are we serious in thinking we could win the league with this midfield?
Our wingers are central attackers playing out of position.
Our two attackers are big and cumbersome with no flexibility. We've been crying for a creative midfielder, a left winger, a left back and a striker of Dybala's type. But we didn't buy a left back or left winger and we didn't buy a creative midfielder. And we chose to bring ibrahimovich back instead of getting a quick and tricky attacker to supplement and take over when tactics require them.
I think most fans and commentators can see the deficiencies. But we seem to struggle as a club to recruit THE BEST. It is sad. Unfortunately, money talks and city, psg are throwing money at the best players and they seem to get them.

6.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 19:51:18
Jred

They have a plan to get to domination, it’s in play now, whilst we just plan to increase the club’s asset value. They worked their way to where they are now, it isn’t just a case of they have Pep. They worked on that for years to put themselves in a position where he would go there whilst we let the Ferguson era drift to a Busby like end. Do not say no one saw it because I said it on here well before.

7.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 19:57:24
Jred, giant all about pep. They have a few handy players as well.

8.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 19:59:03
Two scrappy goals and a wonder save from their keeper. I'm not quite ready to give up of the club yet. Nice story though Red Man.

9.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 20:00:44
Today showed they have a structure and a plan? Just showed me that they know how to win ugly, go down and fake injury and foul when the opposition get the ball.

10.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 20:08:52
City did have a plan. They planned to turn City into Barcelona five years ago and they are close. First they brought in ex-Barcelona coaches, then focused on La Masia, then targeted young Spaniards. They wanted Pep and got him. They have had a plan for a long time and it's coming to fruition now. United also need a plan. We need to decide the route we are going in and stick by it. Until we have a plan in place we will jump from manager to manager and each will want their own style. Pep didn't want a certain style, City wanted Pep who they know play a certain style. Bobby Charlton was against Jose becoming manager because of his negative tactics and his avoidance in promoting youth. Jose was no doubt brought in to fix Manchester United and yes it's working, but we need a plan bigger than the manager, we need a long-term plan like City. If Pep left City would bring in a coach who plays the same style, that's the point. City brought Pep in because he is part of the jigsaw.

11.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 20:11:55
Redman
There 10 year plan for dominance wasn't going very well until they got pep .

12.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 20:13:56
Attack
A yet here we are 2nd in the league ahead of every other team bar city ( half of which you keep going on about how grat they are ) and have made one of our best ever starts to a season .

City and pep have raised the bar this year but United are doing well.

13.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 20:19:18
GDS2

The better team won today but surely you can see they have a clear plan for dominating at home and in Europe whilst we shuffle around hoping for a good transfer window. They improve their infrastructure whilst we don’t. It’s not the result but the direction of our club and I wish people would wake up and see what the owners are doing. City owners want to dominate football, ours seem to want to dominate the asset value league.

14.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 20:23:24
Sydney

Totally agree.

15.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 20:27:32
You would think we are mid table.

16.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 20:36:54
The plan should have started whilst SAF was in charge. It's been a shambles since the rumours of SAF leaving. Poor planning, mistake after mistake. It was obvious he was going to be huge shoes to fill, we should have planned things better. We are only just getting out of that mistake now. We should (IMO) have had a top manager work beside SAF for a season or two then SAF step down. Doesn't matter now as it's done with, however we still need a plan going forward, although I cannot see it happening as MU are simply a business to the owners, a business they will soon cash in on.

17.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 20:37:49
Where city really that good before pep.
Was this amazing plan really working?

2 league titles in 50 years
0 European cups . What's the furthest they have ever got
1 fa cup in 49 year .
Look the real deal in the league under pep tho just like the last 2 teams he manages.

Been very good the first few month of the season tho.

18.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 20:41:45
Jred - We aren't talking about this season. Or how well or bad we are doing. We are talking about the club's future. AJH said recently about the tables have turned, well we need to turn them back. We cannot keep living in the moment, a season by season strategy, we need to plan our future. What we want from our club long-term. Chelsea did it, City doing it. Germany national side after England 5.1 thrashing. You need to have a long-term plan and stick by it. It's sensible. But with the Glazers not interested in the long-term, they aren't going to bring people in with such a plan.

19.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 20:46:56
Jred, "2league titles in 50 years"

The plan has been since they hired the ex-Barca coaches. Not 50 years ago.

20.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 20:53:08
Yes the plan began after Roberto Mancini. So four years ago. They wanted to become like Barcelona, I remember the editor saying it at the time. And they went for Pellegrini, but wanted Pep when he became available. So they've been working on this for 4-5 years. It's starting to work now. Pep even said after the game that people said the Barcelona approach cannot work in the EPL, well it can. Something along them lines.

I guess Red Man is saying it's time for us to have a long-term plan too, I tend to agree. Although I don't see it being implemented as the Glazers aren't here long-term.

I am also very happy with the way our season is going. It's not about how we are doing this season, try not to connect the two.

21.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 20:55:48
It broke my heart today watching them lift the prem trophy/ champions league/ fa cup. oh hold on it's Dec that can't be right!

They may well win the title and deservedly so but is it necessary to constantly rag our own side mercilessly.

22.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 20:57:53
Jred

You don’t get this. Sydney explains it well. You are thinking short term and not looking at the plan they have which has not come to fruition yet but it is progressing. Where is ours?

23.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 21:09:01
Syd they managed to get the best manager in the world .
And for 3 month have played some of the best football in Europe.
It should be no surprise really because his barce and Munich teams also played a very similar way .
Teams managed by pep tend to play very entertaining football and win things .

United and the glazers went out and got Jose as manager a manager that was rated along side pep has the best in the world .
The result was 2 cups in his first season and ahead of every team in the epl bar city, back in the CL and too of our group .

But people are still sulking .
What if the fact is that maybe pep is a bit special and backed with money he will win more than anyone else.
Probably 7 league titles in 3 different leagues in 9 seasons after this season .

24.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 21:13:36
Red man
I do understand pal I just think it revolves around having the best manager in the world .
A manager that is about to win his 7th title in 9 seasons in 3 different leagues .
Watch city and then watch his Munich or barce teams .
We are seeing the pep show, unfortunately there is only 1 pep .

25.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 21:23:33
You don't get it Jred, it's okay.

It's bigger than Pep. The plan started in 2012 when City appointed Txiki Begiristain and Sorrano who were instrumental in Barcelona's success. Then they offloaded Mancini to start the transformation. They wanted Pep before Munich, they got him afterwards. But the point is the plan is to mirror Barcelona and it's working. It'll also continue after Pep has gone. He's merely a cog in their huge plan. Important one sure, but just a part nonetheless. City's long=term plan is working. The owners wanted them to become like Barcelona and it's working.

No one is sulking, just saying we want a similar long-term plan. It's what all fans should want for their club.

26.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 21:46:26
Syd
And how do you know United haven't got a plan?
We aren't mid table we are second won 2 cups last season, ahead of Chelsea spurs in fact every other team bar city .
What's all the other teams plans? Or is just United that don't have one?

City's plan ? the plan was to get pep a manager who has won 21 trophies in 8 season . Rocket science that .
A manager who's teams play very entertaining footy .

I wonder if city's plan would look so wonderful with out pep?

27.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 21:54:26
Actually I think Pep isn't the world's greatest coach and I think he can be challenged. His Barcelona and Bayern teams dominated in leagues with only 2 other competitive teams. Last year he won nothing. This year his team are playing very well but if Utd Liverpool Arsenal and Spurs take proper steps they will challenge him next year. I think it's true that at the moment long term planning is coming to fruition at City. Do you think Madrid Bayern Barcelona and PSG will just roll over and say help yourself to the Champions League and World domination? No way and nor should we. The other things is that nearly all posters here acknowledge that out team has suffered from years of neglect in signing the best quality players to replace members well past their sell by date. Be objective. We have the world's best keeper in De Gea excellent defenders in Bailly Rojo Lindelof and even Jones when fit. In midfield we have Mastic and Pogba. Upfront we have Rashford and Martial. That's a really strong core of players. If Jose gets a few top players more to fill in the gaps we Will be challenging City.

28.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 21:58:53
Do Barcelona play any different before, during and after Pep?

Barcelona are bigger than Pep. City are bigger than Pep. How did Pep do last season?

City have been planning this all since 2012. That's all we're saying.

United do not have a plan. That's very clear.

29.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 22:06:35
Good post Hendonred. Agree with all of it.

30.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 22:05:31
You don’t get it do you

It’s about more than a manager. Look at their infrastructure improvements, Pep is the manager they wanted as part of the overall plan but he wasn’t the only thing in the plan.

31.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 22:16:01
Syd
The ed Said United did have a plan it was lvg then allgeri, just because No one has told you what it is doesn't mean we don't have one .
How did city's plan do last season?
Peps barce where the best football team I've seen .

And to be honest pep probably is bigger than city he has won far more .
City wanted pep and have wanted him since 2012 and that's there plan . Wow I wonder how many other teams would like pep .

United don't have a plan? Of course they do and the first part of it is Jose.
Your really think a team club brand business as big as United don't have a plan? Lol Ok you just don't get it .

32.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 21:31:55
Jred

Pep is one part of an overall plan. They purposefully recruited him, setting their club up so he was the cherry on top of the icing on the cake. We have put an excellent manager in charge and one I wholeheartedly support, yet he does not seem to have the infrastructure around him that Pep does, so has a lot more difficult task. A plan isn’t just about the manager.

33.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 22:32:31
Redman
Suck it up city have cash .
They are the 1 team above us in the league .
Pep is probably showing he is a better manager than Jose.

Other teams are allowed to do well .

Poor Man United will just have to make do with what little we have .

Im sure all the other fans out there will feel sorry for us in this difficult time .

34.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 22:33:45
Could any of this be down to the fact that pep is doing a better job than Jose?

35.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 22:44:15
Jose hasn't got the correct infrastructure around him?
So that's why we got beat today .

36.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 23:07:46
Forget it Jred, you're going waaaaay off topic. Red Man is simply stating City's long-term plan to become like Barcelona is finally coming to fruition and that we need a similar approach. I think it's a fair point which I thoroughly agree with. It isn't a criticism of how we are doing this season, more of an acknowledgement of how far City have come under owners willing to see their club succeed on the field, not just succeed and grow as an asset.

I know City's owners are using the club as a hobby and the Glazers are merely in it for financial gain, but Red Man believes that we should have a plan too. Start thinking about the long-term future. That is fair and City have proven that it's possible. Barcelona proved it before them. We just want a plan Jred that's all. Again that's not a criticism of how we are doing this season. More acknowledgement of how well it's worked for our neighbours.

37.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 23:19:28
I keep hearing about these plans. In the here and now, surely the manager should have one as well. Is that not what José was going to bring to the table?

And I mean another one besides humping it up to the big man and hoping for a knock on.

38.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 23:19:34
"Syd
The ed Said United did have a plan it was lvg then allgeri, just because No one has told you what it is doesn't mean we don't have one"

That's not a long-term plan. That's deciding they want Allegri to replace LvG. And then we get Jose. This is the point Jred. There is no plan at MU. We aren't talking about manager. We're talking about infrastructure etc. We will go manager to manager playing the way whatever that manager plays like. City have a way already and have the best manager to play that way. when Pep goes they will still have the same style of football, just a different coach. Pep is just the coach, the rest is controlled by the infrastructure. When Jose goes we'll need to start again and play a different brand of football.

Again, this subject is NOTHING to do with today's game or even this season. You don't seem to grasp that.

39.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 23:28:40
Hendon, I think we've as many good players as City. KDB, Aguero, and Silva are class acts, but so are Pogba, DDG and Matic. The rest are pretty much like for like Imo. The difference is, Pep is improving the likes of Sterling, Stones, even KDB looks better this season. Meanwhile, Miki, Herrera, Rash and Martial to a degree, have either stalled or regressed. How many players, apart from maybe Young, has José improved? They even play a midfielder at left back, and apart from a slip today, hasn't put a foot wrong.

40.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 23:29:57
We were an amazing double sane away groom a draw and 2 stupid mistakes cost us. Just like they did arsenal last week. Ddg was a lot busier last week. Apart from rom nobody had a terrible game our squad is thin I midfield and without pogba we lack creativity.
I dint think there is much chance of them surrendering their lead but we are in 3 cups and have a huge tight league campaign ahead of us lots to look forward to imo.

41.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 23:40:47
Jred. Redman and Sydney and myself are trying to explain that city and their owners came in, changed things and invested heavily in the infrastructure and the right personnel to get where they are today. It is about to reap dividends. Make no mistake about that. I don't harp on about all other teams being better than us, I harp on about city being better than us. 11 points better on 10th of December.
25% possession playing at home is shocking to say the least. They outplayed us in every department.
Don't know about you, but I couldn't give a toss about being better than the rest of the league apart from city. We need to be top of the league not second.
What has United's plan been? Bring in moyes? A man who was ill prepared for the job. Then rush into appointing lvg when he clearly was beyond his peak. Then appoint Jose when he'd totally cocked up at Chelsea. Some plan that is. Do me a favour.

{Ed007's Note - Being better than the rest of the league bar City gives Utd CL footbal though and that's important on a lot of levels to Utd.}

42.) 10 Dec 2017
10 Dec 2017 23:45:16
We must beat Bournemouth to get back to winning ways. We must secure top three this season, then concentrate on our cup runs. Then get the players we need for the areas we are lacking. It's much more encouraging this season and I know this time next season we will be even closer, I said that before this season kicked off. Felt this season was slightly too soon. Despite today guys I feel we are close to where we were. Chins up and goodnight. We will get back to where we were. Let's just try and enjoy the ride in the meantime.

Goodnight.

43.) 11 Dec 2017
11 Dec 2017 08:57:39
Attack
Lol you have just described life after fergy .
Get use to it boys this is what is Been like for the rest of the league over the last 20 odd year .