1.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 11:15:34
Great summation of the situation we are in. Obviously some of us have been saying this for some time and the fact that so many fans seem to be content with the job Jose is doing speaks volumes for the point you were making about expectations.

We need wholesale changes and it starts with the manager. Let's get back to enjoying being Utd fans, not going to happen for most of us with the negative football on offer and a team full of misery.


2.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 11:48:58
Thanks Beast it was a bit of a rant to be honest, possibly an overreaction to another languid performance I wasn't sure it would even get posted!

It wasn't really intended as an anti Jose post more about a perceived malaise around our Club. When you stop striving to be the best, accept mediocrity and accept that finishing in the top 4 represents success this attitude permeates the Club and rewards the players for failure. It gives a licence for the average and mercenaries to come to Old Trafford and coast along knowing that they will be paid handsomely and rewarded not for winning but for simply securing a 4th place finish.

As a business It makes financial sense I get that. It keeps the Club marketable and secures revenue and sponsorship, but from a fans perspective it is largely irrelevant. We should never be content or celebrate anything less than winning. Finishing in the top 4 means nothing. So we get to enter another competition the following season that in reality we have no chance of winning merely making up the numbers so the Club can remain profitable.

It's not just the structure of the Club that needs to change but the whole attitude to competition. We want to win not make up the numbers. When we start accepting that 4th place represents success and we allow the Club to drift without a commitment to sporting excellence we are no longer a football Club merely an irrelevant money making brand or franchise operating without soul or purpose.


3.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 11:59:52
I didn’t like Jose when he was with Chelski but when he became our manager I supported him. We have been pretty ok initially but we are going backwards lately for whatever reasons. Be it The board’s fault, Woody’s fault, manager’s fault or players’ fault I think it is not found us good. I hate it even more especially when we are being compared to the scousers.
I believe it is not productive calling for the manager’s head now but if we really decides to do something, I’ve said it before, I’d try out Carrick for the rest of the season and then see if he is good enough to get the morale and mojo back into the team afterall he has got good rapport with the players. We can never know until we try out right? If anyone is worried then get Nicky to stand in working with Carrick.
It’ll save us money appointing manager midway and beside most managers may not want to move. We can take our time to tee up the new manager if needed. Who knows maybe Neville or Giggs might be keen to come back. Else we can start working on the likes of Poch or whoever.
As I watch the team don’t seem to want to play for Jose. It’s sad and these players ought to be kicked in their backside but we start with unfortunately the manager.
As I said I don’t believe it’s entirely Jose’s fault and it’s a team effort. If we should change manager then we better make sure we get behind the next one and ensure future players’ ego do not grow. We need to get back to the “we are a team” mentality. If once we change manager then we need to start rebuilding the team - from organization, right mentality and players. It may take 2-3 years before we get back to the top but hey I’m fine with that. Hopefully I get to see us become the PL champion again before I’m gone from this earth.
In the meantime I’ll still support the manager and the team even though it’s hard to watch with swearing sometimes 🤣. But afterall its just football and there are more important and urgent things in this world that needs our attention and prayers.
God bless you all.


4.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 12:18:56
Look at the cash we have spent, and people say the club isn't ambitious, doesn't want success.

You would off though a team with cm options of Fred, matic and pogba and options up top of martial rash Sanchez lukaku would be looking to win things .

Did we spend a world record fee on pogba to finish top 4
Or make Sanchez the highest paid player in the league to finish top 4 .
Appoint Jose with remit of 4th .
We have made a bad choice with Jose, but how many people thought he would be a success at the time?
We tried for pep but couldn't get him if we had off we wouldn't be having this convo.

1st is the target 4th is the bare minimum to keep your job .


5.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 12:28:07
I’ve never been a Jose fan but I think you are overreacting somewhat. We finished runners up last year, something has changed this year that has caused the current malaise. I don’t thInk it’s a lack of ambition, we have spent an awful lot of money but it appears not spent it very wisely. I don’t think we are heading for an abyss, nor are we all doomed, we are having a tough time right now and some tough decisions will have to be taken.

Some players do not seem happy, others are not playing to anything like their potential so something needs to change. Our recruitment has been slap happy, Pogba is a distraction and the signing of Sanchez made no sense whatsoever. I fully accept we need a player overhaul but I still believe a number of other Managers would have us much further up the table.


6.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 12:30:32
It's very clear that there are serious issues higher up at our club, the board don't have a clear direction, a clear vision or at least they don't have one they share with the fans.

We talk about the lowering of our standards and its clear to see. What doesn't help, in fact it hugely damages us, is when our manager talks down our side. When Moyes said we should aspire to be like City he was slated for it, and rightly so. So when our current manager says things like we were always targeting second place in our UCL group. Or that the target is top four, then he should rightly be lambasted. How can he be asking his players to perform when he sets the bar too low? The fact of the matter is he was just defecting, stating the club isn't good enough to avoid the question of whether he is good enough.

The previous managerial appointments don't seem to follow a pattern or an idea, which suggests the person hiring doesn't have a clear understanding of what kind of managers different manager are, or has a clear idea of what a Manchester United manager should be.

However, that is a very different issue than how the team is playing. Both need to be sorted out, and soon.

Now for all fans top four isn't seen as good enough. That being said a failure to achieve top four this season will put huge pressure to achieve it next season. Especially when you factor in the financial aspects of not achieving UCL qualification.
There is also a secondary aspect of attracting the right level of players if we aren't in the UCL next season as well as retaining current players such as De Gea.

So the situation is we have a manager who for whatever reason is underachieving, he isn't getting the most out of his players and he doesn't look like he can turn it around without a mass clear out and a huge recruitment drive. None of which are realistically possible before we find out if we have UCL qualification for next season.

So a classic stick or twist.

Do we gamble of Mourinho turning it around and achieving a top four finish, if he fails we will suffer the consequences.

Or do we gamble and sack him and hope whoever replaces him is able to get more out of our current players than he is and that enables us to finish in the top four.

Both seem a dangerous game to play, and we should be wondering how has the club got itself into this situation? Well that brings us back to the first problem with the club and those who currently run it.

We have an easy run between now and Christmas, Palace was supposed to be the start of that. If we fall further behind the top four between now and Christmas then that gamble might start to seem like less of a gamble.

{Ed002's Note - Which board are you talking about? Who in particular? Stirring everything up from an ill informed position will do no good.}


7.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 12:39:50
Matic is not as good as he once was and Pogba is just Pogba. I would get rid of him at the earliest.


8.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 12:45:31
A decent manager who could get these lot playing well and things would look very different.


9.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 12:46:23
Jred - I'm not saying I'm right pal it's just my perception of our Club. I honestly believe we lack ambition. Style aside Jose did a decent job last season and we finished 2nd. This is not success however and the chasm between us and the Champions was huge. We needed a lot more than just Fred and an unknown teenage right back to bridge that gap. We also saw the return of the the "no value in the market" rubbish which so blighted SAF's last few years in charge. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree but it's my assertion that the Club were content with our performance last season and didn't want to invest the money required to help us bridge that gap. I honestly believe they lack ambition. Of course they'd like to win but are they really committed and determined to make this happen. I have my doubts. I understand this make me sound like a paranoid idiot but I can't understand why we didn't build on two relatively successful seasons under Jose and show more of a determination to topple City. I think we're paying for that lack of ambition and in the long term it will probably end up costing them a lot more to repair the damage. I say back the manager (within reason obviously), aspire to be the best and if things don't work out then act decisively. That way there can be no excuses.


10.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 12:58:50
Dlib
The gap between city and everyone is massive this is an amazing city team lead by a genius of a manager.

It's maybe not as easy to just go out and buy top players as you think .
Ed has told us the club tried and are very ready to spend cash .

We were sat in second last season when we got Sanchez before city and made him the highest paid player in the epl .
Strange if the target was only 4th.


11.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 13:15:42
AJH - I accept that pal I do have a tendency to write emotional posts which can lack balance and can come across as paranoia.

Maybe if we'd have appointed Pep the board argument would probably be irrelevant. Having said that we saw in his first season that even the great Pep needs significant backing and I suppose we just have no idea what he could achieve with our Club. I've always maintained that if Mourinho couldn't bring success then we are in big trouble but maybe I was wrong and he is a dinosaur like others have suggested? In reality it's probably a combination of problems that are proving really difficult to solve and requires a far greater mind than mine. Good debate thanks to everyone for sharing your views!


12.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 14:07:02
Ed002, The honest answer is I don't know. Having not met them, or being privy to all they do it's hard to have an informed opinion.

I suppose I feel the board aren't doing a great job from smaller little snippets of information and not a small amount of (un) educted guess work.

From an outside perspective the club seems rudderless, at least in a footballing sense. There seems a clear agenda to maximise the profit making capabilities of the club, yet there seems no clear identity about the clubs footballing image. Information from higher up is nonexistent, although I think it's important not to have too many people getting involved in the football of the club, especially if that isn't their area of expertise. I do think it's good for the fans to have a connection with the people running the club and that there can be some unity in what the club is aiming for.

There have been hints that not everyone at board level was happy with the appointment of Mourinho, which suggests a lack of unity and possibly support for the manager. It might also suggest that there isn't one clear defined vision of the club, and different board members view the club differently.

Mostly I suppose many people blame the current malaise the club finds itself in on more than the manager. They feel that after three bad appointments who is accountable for that and what was the thinking behind those three appointments?

Is it just a case of bad appointments or is there something not right in the process of hiring these appointments.

The longer the club struggles and keeps hiring managers who are unable to get the club challenging the more people will question who is hiring these managers and under what remit?

{Ed002's Note - Which board are you referring to?}


13.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 14:19:28
Ed002, the board at Manchester United.

{Ed002's Note - As I was saying, perhaps you would want to stay clear of things you don’t understand. It is typical for football supporters to blame people they don’t know, and typical of Manchester United supporters not to understand the structure of the club. The constant moaning and people typing the same stuff over and over is tiresome and making the Manchester United pages unusable.}


14.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 14:57:32
What is your opinion on United's situation ed? You are very on the money with your assessments and it would be great to hear your opinion. Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - Allegri should be in his second season know so the Toxics got what they deserved. However, over-reacting to a simple draw doesn't help anyone and the site is becoming unusable with people wrecking every thread that they can spouting the same ill informed nonsense. There is never any mention of advisors whilst all and sundry are blamed. Players come and go, MU blocked DDG leaving before so he will be far from happy. Pogba has been done to death. The expectations on Martial are too high for the ridiculous money pad. Inbrahimovic caused issues and was a mistake. There remain those who don't trust the coach and there was a lack of support


15.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 15:03:48
That's cool Ed002. At least we know its all down to Mourinho now. lol.


16.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 15:16:53
Correction - Moyes should be entering his 5th/ 6th season - I forget which because it's been mind numbingly boring since he was in charge. The whole fiasco started with hiring him on a 6 year deal.

That was the plan!


17.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 16:12:37
As pointed out yesterday, Moyes after 13 games had more points, more goals scored and less conceded than we currently do. With arguably a weaker side, at least on paper.


18.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 16:40:56
Not an excuse for Jose Shappy but the Moyes team was better than the current one, champions the season before and all of them actually looked like they wanted to play for the club.


19.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 18:17:49
Oh come on. Every man and his dog on here was saying what an awful state Fergie had left the team in. RVP was the difference that year, and an amazing manager. I've always maintained Fergie's biggest achievement, was eeking out one last title from such a relatively ordinary team. Could you imagine what he could have done with players of the quality of Pogba, Sanchez and Mata, as well as the exciting young talent we have now in our squad?


20.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 19:02:32
Scholes, it's arguable either way to be honest. On one side the team were champions, and supposedly all of them wanted to be there. Although RvP has said he might not had joined if he knew Sir Alex would retire after one season. So that might suggest at least one player wasn't completely happy at the start of that season. Its probably fair to say many players were probably concerned as to how the season might pan out after Sir Alex retired.

On the other hand we had some terrible players and many of our best players were well into their 30's. Practically our entire defence was past their best, Rio, Vidic and Evra. Scholes retired for a second time before that season started and he was probably our best midfielder between January and June in his final season. Maybe only Carrick on a similar level. RvP has a great season the year before firing us to the title, yet he wasn't completely happy going into that season, plus injuries started to effect him again that season. then players like Anderson and Nani who had failed to live up to expectations, Rafael and Fabio, Kagawa, Cleverley, Evans, Zaha, Powell, Buttner, Micheal Keane and Welbeck.

That was on paper and in actuality probably our weakest side to win the league.


21.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 15:42:40
Ed002 it's all well and good pointing out we should have Allegri on season 2 but that ship has sailed and the direction of the club seems to be lost. I and I think everyone here is more concerned with the new plan. Is there one? It doesn't seem like it.

{Ed002's Note - I am not sure there needs to be right now. I appreciate the club drew a game.}


22.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 16:03:08
We see what you're saying Ed002 but these draws and losses are becoming a regular occurence now, fair enough if it's not happening too much but when it's happening this often there's bound to be a backlash from the fans.

{Ed002's Note - If someone new came in and after a few weeks they were wining, drawing and losing would you want someone else - are your expectations reasonable. Where did the club end up last season?}


23.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 18:36:24
Ed 002. As you have repeatedly said Allegri was the manager the club had in mind a few years back to take the club forward.

The Owners and Board must be concerned at the results and, contrary to the belief of some posters, are not all idiots. They will see and hear the discontent from the fans and also know the damage it will do to the clubs share price if we are consistently out of the trophies. Would you know if they have a manager in mind to succeed Jose if things do not work out and it would be interesting to hear who You would pick who might reasonably be available as his successor and why you would pick him. Thanks for your time.

{Ed002's Note - I would hope the deal with the fans with the contempt the fans deserve. Your go to Mail or Mirror or whatever told you Zizou would be taking over a few weeks ago - that should be enough for a while.}}


24.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 20:39:58
Thanks ed. And in relation to Jose, should he gain the support needed? Do you believe that he can still take this united team further?

{Ed002's Note - The fans are done with him, the club has already demonstrated their position. I am not sure where this is going.}


25.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 21:25:12
Well I believe he is a world class coach. I hope come January and summer, he will be able to make the necessary moves to bring in the players he wants and move on the players he wants out.

I also am 100% sure that no matter who comes in after, whether it be god himself, 'fans' would be calling for his head too if a few results weren't going their way.

{Ed025's Note - and thats fine angel, im sure if jose turns things around he will be the best thing since sliced bread again mate, this is not something that is exclusive to united though as all teams supporters are very much the same..


26.) 25 Nov 2018
25 Nov 2018 21:35:52
True ed025. Just wish we could be more realistic with our own expectations. I've not been convinced by the bulk of the current squad, many of whom have been there since fergie/ moyes. It's almost like their is a rotten core than hasn't been fully eradicated and no matter the player being added they seem to get sucked into that core.

It's a pattern that has emerged since Fergie left. Players consistently underperforming.

Too easy nowadays to blame the manager.

{Ed025's Note - united can only have one expectation angel and thats to win every competition they enter its the way the club has set itself up for many years mate, success has meant that when things dont go to plan its classed as a catastrophe im afraid..


27.) 26 Nov 2018
26 Nov 2018 10:41:10
Great point Beast. Cannot believe we’re back to the toxics. Unbelievable.