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06 May 2016 00:50:15
Reports that LVG has a salary of up to £8m with only £3.3m of that being a basic salary and the rest consisting of bonuses dependent on our success domestically and in Europe.

They seem to think that it would cost the club around £5m to sack him.

Ignoring this figure for a moment and assuming that there was no clause in his contract determining what would happen in the event that his contract was terminated (which seems unlikely) - the absolute maximum cost of getting rid of LVG in January would have been around £14.4m (18 months salary plus 2 lots of bonuses) .

By waiting until this seasons bonuses were no longer obtainable (and assuming that he meets none of the criteria for them) - the club will have saved £4.7m in bonuses whilst spending £1.65m on his wages over the final 6 months of the season - leaving a net saving of just over £3m.

If there is a clause in his contract allowing the club to cancel the final year of his contract and pay him a set fee if he fails to achieve certain criteria - then they can save as much as another £8m. As mentioned above - the Times seem to think that this figure is £5m which would give the club a total saving of £6m (£3m from next seasons potential salary, plus £3m saved this season through not paying his bonuses) .

With that in mind I cannot for the life of me understand why the club opted to hold fire when it came to deciding the future of the manager.

Champions League qualification was still very obtainable in January and with a new manager and a few signings I'm fairly confident we would have achieved it. Bearing in mind that Champions League qualification is worth a minimum of £25m - it seems bizarre and incredibly unlikely that the club would risk losing this in order to save £6m.

This would suggest that the board still had faith in LVG back in January - but if that was the case - I can't understand why they would pull the plug on the transfers that were lined up for the January window.

Doing so suggests to me that they expected him to fail and did not want to compound the £25m+ the club would lose if he did by dropping more on players that the next manager may not want. On its own that makes perfect sense - but not when they keep the manager.

If they truly had faith in the manager they should have signed the players he asked for in January - and to be fair - I do think that had he been able to sign 1 'game changer' we would probably have scraped into the top 4. Instead they seem to have left him surrounded by uncertainty with a target that he seems destined to fail to achieve. If they didn't have faith in him - why didn't they sack him?

I'd just like to make it clear that for the most part I couldn't give a damn about the finances involved in all of this as it is not my money - but mention them only as they seem to suggest that finances do not seem to be the motivation for keeping the manager. To be quite honest I can't see what exactly is!

What are peoples' thoughts?

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06 May 2016 05:20:57
Biggest club in the world and run like a corner shop. And yes I know we always have been.

Like any disaster it's mult-factorial:
- the wheels came off for us with a shocking December. Prior to that we had topped the league even though our play was bang average.
- LVG is Woodward's man hence failure by LVG is failure by Woodward. That builds in a level of hesitancy that to be blunt just shouldn't exist in a so-called (on a day to day basis) chief exec
- Mourinho's availability suddenly got people putting 2+2 together and the assumption he could take over relatively quickly. That availability coincided with a poor run. So I think the January buys were scrapped because through December, when a lot of the real leg work to finalise deals would be done, we were awful and the Special One's 'for hire' sign had suddenly lit up. But crucially I think the Board were split whether Jose was the right man. So lilted into limbo - not sacking LVG but not supporting him further in the January window either.
- then of course there's the money. Whilst we will see it as you've saved £Xm in not sacking LVG 'too soon' but lost £XXXm in Champs League qualification, one of those is an absolute and one of them is conjecture. Would Mourinho have got us Top 4 or higher? Quite possibly. But it's not a known fact. The 'we can pay less to get rid of you' LVG bit is. Also need to remember Mourinho's immediate form and losing a dressing room before his becoming available wasn't exactly sparkling.

In the final analysis we chose to stick with LVG in the hope that he could turn it around. As a parallel process we have recognised that maybe he is not the right man and in any case is only here for a further year anyway.

Appointing LVG wasn't the wrong thing to do from a CV perspective. Appointing a then 62yo on a 3 year contract and then having to go through the entire process again was.

We had the right idea in picking a younger manager in Moyes. We had the right idea in picking a Champs League winning manager with 'big club' experience in LVG. What we needed from the day after Fergie's retirement announcement was someone who had both of those: right experience and calibre coupled with the longevity to build a club that can challenge for a decade. There have only ever been 2 real candidates. One's at City and hopefully one starts 1st June.

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05 May 2016 16:12:11
@Ed001

Have you heard anything new regarding the managerial situation at United? Its all a bit confusing right now.

There seems to be no real benefit to keep LVG on, and yet we seem to be doing so.

Believable1 Unbelievable1

{Ed001's Note - nothing has changed yet mate.}

05 May 2016 22:11:57
We have 4 games left. let's finish the season first.

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05 May 2016 19:08:20
Really unlikely to happen but realistically what are the chances for us getting Yaya Toure, still think he could do a job for any team but has just lost interest at City?

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{Ed004's Note - Wouldn't want him. Complete liability}

05 May 2016 19:26:59
Really?
Why would we want him @34, from City and with baggage.
We should be looking to build for the next 5 years not the next 5 months!

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05 May 2016 19:59:26
Is this a joke.

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05 May 2016 19:11:37
Even if he was playing in a position that requires on defensive duties?

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05 May 2016 20:31:01
Dont think that went down too well, my bad!

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05 May 2016 21:19:14
He's probably 49. The strops he pulls just before the summer period should be enough to put you off and he looks to me like his legs have gone.

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05 May 2016 22:31:39
you will have to buy him a cake first.

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05 May 2016 22:45:14
His birthday is next week, I just hope they get him a cake.

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04 May 2016 23:46:23
The Sun reporting that EW has asked Jose to wait another year so that LVG can see out his contract.

If true, I expect both LVG and EW to be down the job centre come October.

Believable5 Unbelievable2

05 May 2016 02:39:21
Its The Sun redseven. They write utter garbage. The news came from Duncan Castles who is well known to have an agenda against United. His own fellow journalists don't take him seriously.

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05 May 2016 09:32:30
I hope this rumour is untrue, another year of joyless football under LVG would be too much to bear and Jose would be unavailable by then. In truth I think the introduction of young players into the team has not been part of LVG's strategy but has been forced upon him by injury.

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05 May 2016 10:40:28
Cinderella, forget about the negative LVG stuff for a minute. He clearly stated at the start of the year that he would keep a smaller squad so if there were injuries then the younger players would get an opportunity. So yes, it was part of the strategy.

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05 May 2016 12:14:17
What makes you think football under Mourinho would be any less joyless?

Did you ever watch his Chelsea or Inter sides play?

As I've said before, I'd rather have boring football with youngsters being given chances, than boring football with youngsters getting much more limited opportunities.

Of course, what I'd really prefer is a totally different manager (ie not LVG or Mourinho) being brought in who can get the team playing exciting football, bring youngsters through and also improve results.

Don't get the wrong idea, I want LVG gone too, I just don't want to see him replaced by Mourinho.

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05 May 2016 12:34:10
Angelred - so you would rather have boring football with youngsters being given a chance than boring football with youngsters not getting a chance.
Well for a start off the only reason that you have seen these youngsters is because LVG had that many injuries and had nowhere to turn so he had to bring the youngsters in.
If the team had an injury free campaign do you really think you would have seen them?
If Shaw and that brainless clown Rojo wouldn't of got injured would we have seen Bothwick Jackson? If Rooney wasn't injured would we have seen Rashford? If the full back Darmian and Phil Jones wouldn't of got injured would we have seen Varela or Forsu Mensah? It's by pure luck that LVG had had to bring them in and basically they have been the only bright bit of what's been another dreadfully dull boring season.
Now that these players have been bloodied and we know what they can do-do you really think that Mourinho is going to come in and just drop them from the first team squad. he's one of the best managers around and he knows talent when he see's it. And by the way Mourinho's style of football is a hell of a lot better than LVG'S tippy tappy side ways passing philosophy where we hardly ever have shot on target or score goals.
If Mourinho does come in and the deal is agreed he will also be taken aside by the likes of Charlton and Ferguson to be told what is expected at Manchester United.

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05 May 2016 13:22:41
After reading many articles - some credible, some not - I believe that Mourinho will come in this summer if we fail to get top 4.

If we DO achieve top 4, LVG will stay and see out his contract.

Whilst the football has been pretty insipid this year, we have to remember thT LVG was brought in to get rid of deadwood and build foundations for another manager to come in and achieve success. He's certainly knocked the squad about, intentionally giving youngsters the chance to shine, as he rebuilds. He's also been unlucky with injuries and several signings haven't lived up to their reputations. In addition, whilst seemingly clumsy and arrogant at times, he's tried to reeducate the players into a more possession/ multi-positional philosophy to make them better players. Perhaps we might see the fruits of this next season, perhaps not - can't imagine trying to teach some of the more cerebrally-challenged players has been easy!

Conversely, it has appeared at times that the players just don't want to play for him, as they resent his confusing instructions and just want to get on with playing in the positionthey know best, using familiar tactics. I also suspect that having Giggs in there hasn't engendered the most harmonious relationship.

So the question is: could we trust LVG to finish his rebuilding next year and finally see the fruits of his labour? I'd love to believe that he will get there eventually but, to be honest, I'm not so sure.

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05 May 2016 14:18:49
Brilliant post Wallace. Completely agree with you.

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05 May 2016 14:40:14
Come on boys have you not seen the poll.
Come on ken help me out here.

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05 May 2016 16:35:01
Simmo, As Angelred pointed out, LVG clearly stated at the beginning of the season that keeping the first team squad light and using youngsters to fill in for injuries etc was part of the plan for the season.

Since injuries are a fact of life in football, trying to say LVG doesn't get credit for giving the youngsters playing time is ridiculous.

He specifically planned to use inevitable injuries to give kids a chance, instead of bringing in more experienced squad players for cover. And he told us that 9 months ago.

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05 May 2016 16:38:26
LVG is gone in the summer even if he gets 3rd and wins the FA cup. The decision was made in January. And no matter what article you read in whichever tabloid, the fact won't change.

Thorne, did you see his sides play? Chelsea of 03/ 04. Remember them? Chelsea of last season? They had the title won by December.

Real Madrid? Highest scoring seasons 3 years in a row. Beat Pep's (supposedly the best in the world) Barcelona.

Yes Inter was more tactical and less gung ho but he made the best use of what he had available. I am sure Inter would have been exciting if he had the players.

He makes use of what is available to him and make no mistake, he is simply the best at it. You don't play Barcelona to win 4-0, you simply play to win even if it's 1-0.

A lion is all fire and king of the jungle and plays fiery all the time, but still a hunter takes him down, with patience. Jose is the hunter.

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05 May 2016 17:57:42
My personal view is that lvg has failed in too many respects.
If the board decide to change managers then there is bound to be some outstanding candidates.
Imo Jose is by far the most outstanding candidate in terms of his track record of winning titles.
All manager's have flaws in their cv and character.
Jose has not let any club down and done any worse than some of our much lauded hero's such as Keane cantona Rooney Giggs Fergie who all at one time or another dragged our clubs name through the mud for a variety of reasons from granny or sister in law sex scandles to deliberately injuring opponents or attacking supporters ignoring the national broadcaster or suing the major shareholders over a horse or urinating in the street.
On youth we have given plenty of debuts but not produced a top class player for many years so he won't do worse there.
All of the traits we despised in the Chelsea Jose can be found in Fergie. When Jose is wearing red we will choose to ignore his faux pas like we did for sir Alex.
I think he will do a very good job and put us back on top. The majority of United fans would agree I think.

Giggs is not an option at this time due to experience imo but they're are other options I'm sure the club will consider. But none of the options will have a cv as trophy laden as that if Jose.

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05 May 2016 17:57:42
My personal view is that lvg has failed in too many respects.
If the board decide to change managers then there is bound to be some outstanding candidates.
Imo Jose is by far the most outstanding candidate in terms of his track record of winning titles.
All manager's have flaws in their cv and character.
Jose has not let any club down and done any worse than some of our much lauded hero's such as Keane cantona Rooney Giggs Fergie who all at one time or another dragged our clubs name through the mud for a variety of reasons from granny or sister in law sex scandles to deliberately injuring opponents or attacking supporters ignoring the national broadcaster or suing the major shareholders over a horse or urinating in the street.
On youth we have given plenty of debuts but not produced a top class player for many years so he won't do worse there.
All of the traits we despised in the Chelsea Jose can be found in Fergie. When Jose is wearing red we will choose to ignore his faux pas like we did for sir Alex.
I think he will do a very good job and put us back on top. The majority of United fans would agree I think.

Giggs is not an option at this time due to experience imo but they're are other options I'm sure the club will consider. But none of the options will have a cv as trophy laden as that if Jose.

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05 May 2016 18:41:31
Well said ken.

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05 May 2016 19:00:30
Thorne - We know from Ed002 that LVG was trying to sign a RW and 2CBs in the summer. Had he signed them the squad would have actually been larger than last season (9 in 8 out) . We've also heard how the plug was pulled on at least 2 transfers in January which would have also brought the squad back up to either the same size or larger.

The first instance I could find of LVG saying that he had chosen to have a small squad was in November when CBJ broke onto the scene and was getting a lot of media attention. Prior to that (and indeed numerous times since) he has complained about the number of injuries and having to rely on young inexperienced players. It seems very strange to me that he would complain about something that he has specifically planed for happening coming to fruition.

Shan - Jose Mourinho may well be our manager come June but the fact that none of the Editors nor any of the media know what the club is planning makes me doubt very much that you could possibly know with and certainty. If you care to share the source of your information then by all means do so but unless you do then no matter how many times you try to present this information as fact; it will not make it so.

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05 May 2016 19:01:15
Mourhino will make the most of what he has got, playing to existing strengths rather squeezing individuals into his joyless tactical corset.

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06 May 2016 03:26:05
Redseven my source of info is the same as yours. Ed2 said this much that the club had made a decision in January regarding LVG and that is why the Allegri plan was out of the window. And that was the long term plan. So if that is true, then who else do you see is available. Unless of course the club is looking to get Moyes back in.

I am just putting 2 and 2 together and then hoping that my calculator works well.

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03 May 2016 17:26:13
Ed 01, if you don't me asking, is there any interest in Griezman? If yes do you think he would be attainable?
Thanks.

Believable0 Unbelievable1

{Ed001's Note - I wouldn't get your hopes up.}

03 May 2016 19:16:01
Ah well thanks again. Heard anything else regarding United? I mean something we haven't heard from you yet?

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{Ed001's Note - not really mate, I have not been able to devote much time to it. I am a bit busy to chase up info, I have had 11 in laws staying and I am preparing to move country for the rest of the year two days after they go home. It has not left me much time. Remind me around the 12th or so, and I will push for some info on United in particular. Sorry for not being much use right now.}

03 May 2016 20:17:06
No problem at all ed.
11 in laws eh? Just thinking about it makes me reach for my whiskey haha.

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{Ed001's Note - actually it is not so bad. The fact they can't understand what I say and I can't understand them probably helps! And the little nephew and niece are great fun to have around. Though they seem to think I am a climbing frame and like to do things like stand up on the arm of the sofa and just launch themselves head first at me assuming I will catch them and then twirl them around. When I took them to the mall, I was walking round with one hanging off each arm swinging. So I can't complain about a lack of exercise! They are better than any weight regime I have ever tried.}

03 May 2016 20:25:19
Sounds like you have a lot on your plate Ed. I suppose moving country is one way of making sure the in laws don't come back. Enjoy the piece and quiet when you get settled.

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{Ed001's Note - that is true as they will struggle to get a visa for Spain. Actually, being perfectly honest, I think it is my missus that has the short straw on the inlaw front!}

03 May 2016 20:28:13
Ed001 I know your busy but have you heard anything about players leaving this summer?

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{Ed001's Note - nothing new, though I did hear some things regarding Januzaj which makes it plain to see why he has dropped so completely out of the first team picture. If he doesn't buck his ideas up fast, his career will be extremely short.}

03 May 2016 20:38:10
Sounds like you're having fun mate! In laws who don't understand you, how I wish I had that.
My niece seems to think I'm some sort of nail filer, trust me you don't want to be that.

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{Ed001's Note - yeah, the not being understood bit is actually quite useful. Luckily no one would use me as a nail filer twice, I am far too heavy handed for stuff like that.}

03 May 2016 20:39:24
Yeah I have heard stories that the money etc has gone to his head!

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{Ed001's Note - his attitude had stunk the place out, in Germany as well. Sad when they get like that.}

04 May 2016 20:15:29
Whereabouts in Spain are you off to 001? . We have got a place on the mainland, would love to live there one day. Good luck, it's a massive step.

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{Ed001's Note - I am only there until the end of the year, all being well, to save up for my wedding. My fiancee's job is here in Dubai, so the intention is to come back then, all being well. I am going to be staying in a village called Marinaleda in Andalusia. My first ever visit to Spain to be honest, though my parents retired there a few years ago now.}

02 May 2016 07:51:41
I hear that Memphis has deleted everything to do with Man Utd off is instagra account and unfollowed all his team mates, could he be leaving in the summer? I did hear rumours that he could be involved in a swap deal with Southampton for Mane. Are we still interested in him eds?

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - you have heard wrong. He deleted his Instagram account or shut it down for now at least. As for Mane, yes there is still interest.}

02 May 2016 09:45:16
Ita unlike the media to take something and spin it with a totally different slant.

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02 May 2016 10:11:40
Indeed Mort.

I hope he makes it here, I don't see why he can't if given more game time - he should be tried out on the right to rotate with Lingard - he would offer much more than Mata does out there.

Mane would be a decent signing - in fairness I can't think of many possible right sided signings other than James.

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02 May 2016 23:34:07
I hope he has been told to concerntrate on football and stop acting like a dick.

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01 May 2016 21:25:04
Ed001,

Do you know if Madrid are still looking to sell Benzema?

If so do you know anything about where he could end up?

Cheers mate.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - yes they are, and no I don't, not exactly a lot of suitors in Europe so probably somewhere like China or the Middle East.}

02 May 2016 05:36:38
I find that strange as a lot of reports etc say he's the man that ties that attacking line together and brings the others into play etc. I assume they have a replacement lined up? Lewa?

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{Ed001's Note - why would it be strange? Have you forgotten what he did to his France team mate? Have you forgotten he faces criminal prosecution? Other than that, this discussion is really for the Real Madrid page as he is very unlikely to move to Man Utd this summer.}

02 May 2016 05:46:46
Strange as the big teams in Spain seem to be the best hiding place for all sorts of high profile criminal behaviour from tax fraud to hormone boosting - Costa Del Crime!

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{Ed001's Note - good point. I had never considered it that way. The issue is more one of trust I would think. Once you see someone do something like that to one of his very best mates, would you trust him? I know I wouldn't trust Benzema.}

28 Apr 2016 16:13:10
Reported interest in N'Golo Kante, apparently been recommended by Fergie. wouldn't be a bad combination in midfield alongside Renato Sanches.

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28 Apr 2016 18:30:38
Sanches, Kante, Murillo, Mustafi, Rafa Silva, Zlatan, keep DDG and we will be looking good.

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28 Apr 2016 19:43:24
WRD you don't want much then 😄.

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28 Apr 2016 20:13:23
No just the odd tweak Dave ha ha.

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28 Apr 2016 20:36:21
I think Fosu Mensah in centre of midfield may be a better combination with Sanches, if indeed we are interested or able to buy him.

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28 Apr 2016 22:54:48
I think Jose may look to Fosu-Mensah in the same way as he did Varane.

As for Kante, top signing if we can make it happen. Mourinho type player too.

I'd love to see Kante and Stones in particular.

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28 Apr 2016 23:07:25
I don't think we really need a lot of new players, just a manager who doesn't stick Young on as a striker or pick Fellaini over Herrera then wonder why we keep losing the ball in midfield.

A right winger is probably top priority IMO (well, after selling Fellaini), and a striker, box-to-box midfielder, right back and a central defender with more aerial prescence would all be nice, but I don't think any are really essential. One or two of those, plus a right winger and the squad is good.

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28 Apr 2016 23:07:25
I don't think we really need a lot of new players, just a manager who doesn't stick Young on as a striker or pick Fellaini over Herrera then wonder why we keep losing the ball in midfield.

A right winger is probably top priority IMO (well, after selling Fellaini), and a striker, box-to-box midfielder, right back and a central defender with more aerial prescence would all be nice, but I don't think any are really essential. One or two of those, plus a right winger and the squad is good.

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29 Apr 2016 20:17:48
Fosu Mensah's passing is no where near good enough at this stage to play midfield IMO. He will be CB in My opinion eventually. He has talent and size but quite raw still offensively.

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28 Apr 2016 09:50:59
According to the portuguese press, the benfica president is in Manchester along with Jorge Mendes to finalize the Renato Sanches deal with Ed Woodward.

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28 Apr 2016 14:29:15
I saw that earlier. Hope it is true. I watched a few youtube videos of the lad (Yeah I know that even bebe looked world class from his clips in youtube :O) ) and he looks like a real talent.

Someone mentioned warming to the idea of LVG being here next season. I must admit that I too wonder if letting him go now while we are trying to introduce all the young players would be a good idea. Can't believe I said that but to be fair, if that is the clubs policy going forward, there isn't many better out there working with the youngsters than the manager IMO. Poch would be nice, but he wants to manage in that crap league across the channel when he leaves spurs.

I don't know what to think to be honest. I am just glad we are stocking up on the best young talent around. It will put us in good stead who ever is in charge in the future.

Do the Ed's think Jose would stick with the policy of signing the best young players and integrating them into the team with more senior established players?

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28 Apr 2016 19:17:10
Think it's fair to say REDFAITH. We will be buying every player available, this is what happens with Man Utd . Woodward will wait until all the season tickets have been sold, then give us all a quick kick in the knackers by saying Van Gaal is staying, We are selling De Gea and no new players are coming in.
We will all know in good time what's happening, regarding managers and players alike.
The big question is in my eyes. Are we man Utd fans prepared to sit through another season of boring and laboured football under van gaal.
Well I'm not, and until major changes are made they can stick their season ticket were the sun don't shine.

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26 Apr 2016 15:44:50
Any interest from United in Casemiro of Madrid? Hugely underrated, incredible range of passing and defensively outstanding.

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{Ed004's Note - None}

26 Apr 2016 23:20:18
He has an awful passing range. Very good defensively but he's extremely limited on the ball which slows down Real Madrid's build up play.

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27 Apr 2016 10:50:54
Apparently it is renato sanches that we are looking at. In my opinion that would be a great signing.

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27 Apr 2016 20:43:56
Renato is needed
Not a dm. schneiderlein is our 1st choice and tfm can play, as can blind and from what i read, mcnair is killing it there!

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