Manchester United Rumours Member Posts


Timbo's Profile

Current Avatar:
No Avatar image uploaded
Flat Out Racing:

Not played Flat Out Racing

No Profile Picture uploaded


Where from:

Favourite player:

Best team moment:



Timbo's Posts and Other Poster's Replies To Timbo's Posts



To Timbo's last 5 rumours posts


To Timbo's last 5 banter posts


To Timbo's last 5 rumour replies


To Timbo's last 5 banter replies


Timbo's rumours posts with other poster's replies to Timbo's rumours posts


07 Nov 2018 23:27:42
Amazing result considering we played 4-1-3 formation for most of the match. Amazing tactical move by Jose to leave Matic and Pogba on the pitch but to tell them to offer absolutely nothing. Herrera though by comparison was superb.


1.) 08 Nov 2018 09:31:29
There really is 0 way of pleasing some people. Juventus hadn't lost at home prior to last night in 12 matches (all comp) . They have also reached the CL final in 2 out of the past 4 years. In a response to a recent post of my own, it was suggested that I was overly optimistic regarding the current side we have but I fail to see how anyone can be anything but delighted with the sides performance following the result last night. The reason Herrera stood out for you is because of the job Matic and Pogba did in front of him. If you can't be anything but positive after a result like that, I wonder if you ever can be. Personally, I am delighted with continued improvement the side is making under JM and I think we'll beat City at the weekend. Try and cheer up, mate.

2.) 08 Nov 2018 17:56:41
@King. When did I say I wasn't pleased? I have no idea why you make such sweeping and unfair judgements over one simple, tongue in cheek, yet fairly accurate post. No sense.

But that is not as ridiculous as to suggest that Matic and Pogba made Herrera’s role easier. What!?! £90m on Pogba, World Cup winning, goal scoring, assist making saviour returning to the club. He actually provided nothing but a threat to our own defence, not just last night but since joining United, by constantly losing possession in front of our back four. He showboats constantly in the wrong parts of the pitch and places us under unnecessary pressure. Even Juventus players have acknowledged his regression.

My point was United won despite Pogba. This is very often the case.

3.) 08 Nov 2018 18:16:26
Hi Timbo,
Hardly tongue in cheek and I fully disagree with your second post. Keep your pecker up though, not as doom and gloom as you make it!

{Ed002's Note - Pecker? Tongue in cheek? This isn't a dating site.}

4.) 08 Nov 2018 18:19:49
Brilliant, Ed. It was starting to feel that way.

5.) 08 Nov 2018 21:37:49
I didn't see the match but it seems like we dominated the match and juve were lucky to get the first goal. And we could have easily put 4 or 5 goals past them.

{Ed025's Note - your didn,t see the game..

6.) 09 Nov 2018 03:04:48
I think we did pretty well considering how far ahead of us Juventus are in team building. One of our better performances to keep them quiet. But Pogba did mess up a lot.

7.) 10 Nov 2018 11:45:54
I thought we were poor but got the result.

8.) 10 Nov 2018 20:28:54
I thought we have a few chances away, to be expected at juve against a team that is arguably the best in Europe, but played quite well, particularly in first 30 mins and last 20.

I don't think we were poor at all. Rode our luck at times alright but overall it was quite a good away performance considering the opposition.



19 May 2018 20:25:52
I take comfort from the fact we’ll never see that group of players as a starting 11 again. Today truly showed how poor we are down the flanks. Young and Valencia must be in bottom three pairings of fullbacks in the prem.


1.) 19 May 2018 22:29:01
Zero delivery from the flanks it’s true. Toothless all match and Chelsea kept us very much at arm’s length today.

2.) 19 May 2018 23:22:12
i wouldn't hold your breath, 4 transfers windows in and we still and Valencia smalling jones and you.

3.) 20 May 2018 07:15:01
2 wingers that can't cross or go outside the fullbacks. Rashford played out of position again and another 45 minute game. and this was a cup final! Second half we asked questions but whee were we first half. And Lukaku tells Jose he's not ready to play? Is the tail wagging the dog?
So we finish 2nd and I've yet to meet another fan that's happy. Jose has a lot to do and what world star wants to play this brand of football? Another long summer buying average players?

4.) 20 May 2018 08:29:03
Said to a pal of mine watching it that we’d wasted a whole half of s match in this game. When we woke up it was too late, not that we ever looked like scoring.

Perhaps we need an attacking coach to work on these aspects of our game alongside Jose if he to stay as it’s not working.

5.) 20 May 2018 13:05:11
we Should be getting shot of Jose, he won’t get anywhere near city next season all he will do is buy short term fixes like Willian which doesn’t helper the club in the future. Do we waste another season. Why not get in a young manager who actually understands the modern game and will maybe play for a win now and again. City will be untouchable for next couple of years so get a manager in with a 3 year plan to produce a winning squad who play the Utd way. One More season under Jose Andy his bus stop could do unrepairable damage I mean what too footballers want to come and defend all season.

6.) 20 May 2018 14:26:30
“Unreparable damage”? Really? You actually believe that? The club will be ruined *forever* if Mourinho stays?

7.) 20 May 2018 20:43:54
Think one more season of rubbish and Jose will be heading for the exit door. Jones and his kamakazi defending cost us again his face gurning at every tackle. Our defence is old and one dimensional. Sanchez has done naff all since arriving, Rashford needs a boot up the butt, He his not world class as yet, but plays like he has won everything in the game . Lot of players in our squad need to take a look at themselves over the summer and come back wanting to play for the shirt and to entertain the paying fans. That goes for Jose also, Other teams are working him out and he has no plan B, C or D. Roll on the World Cup .

{Ed025's Note - its hard to disagree with that rock..

8.) 21 May 2018 12:14:14
Cheers Ed.

{Ed025's Note - your welcome mate..




Timbo's banter posts with other poster's replies to Timbo's banter posts


09 Mar 2019 08:55:49
For me Ole has put the long lost passion and romance of football back in to Old Trafford. By all means accuse me of looking through rose-tinted glasses, but if a manager makes me do that then he's doing something right. I haven't done that for years. Football is a joy again. Matches take too long to come around. Press interviews are interesting.

Its now Ole Trafford. He now has my respect above and beyond what he achieved as a player for United. I don't buy this "anybody could have done this", I'm sorry but that's utter nonsense Mr. Ince. "This" is now quite incredible. Ole is demonstrating an ability to work with, respect and listen to his coaching team, make shrewd and brave team selections, make effective substitutions, promote and motivate youth players, recognise and utilise the strengths of the experienced players, mobilise the fanbase and deliver results time and time again - some in the most incredible of circumstances.

Taking Ole out of the debate, looking for the 'logical' best fit has not worked. In some cases there was a serious lack of logic anyway. Ole is a dam good fit. There may be weaknesses but United is a club that promotes youth - and that ethos should in some ways be shone on the manager too. He is young and inexperienced, just like so many now legendary players from the past. I look at him and see so much potentia. The guy drips class, humility and has not once frowned, snarled or shown any resentment to the press. How refreshing.

If he is having a fraction of the impact upon the players that he is the fan base then we are on the right path. Personally I really don't see what Blanc (mentioned elsewhere) offers that's worth the risk of changing. What am I missing? He may be a tactical genius, and I haven't even researched his CV because it shouldn't even be a possibility, but from memory nothing particularly stands out.

For years now we've been saying we need to recover from the loss of Sir Alex, if nothing else Ole is doing that. and then some. I believe it is shrewd and wise to wait until the summer before announcing anything, it gives Ole more time to grow in to the role with less (and its all relative) pressure.

Gary Nev said there's only three questions that need asking. Well there is a fourth, and that's the DoF. The club needs somebody that can support Ole, if the club get that right (Edwin van der Sar would be my choice) I believe there is a very bright and exciting future ahead of us all.


1.) 10 Mar 2019 02:41:46
Good post Tim with which I agree with most if not all the points.
Recently Schmeichal has raised his hand to be the DOF. I would be against that as I think EvdS is more suited. Not really a person who draws controversy and attention, he would be a good fit and would know the DNA of the club. He would work well with OGS I feel. Kasper would be too imposing in opinion and I see him to be a little Woody-like.
Just my humble opinion.
Looking forward to the game later. Best opportunity to level 3rd but trailing only by goal difference. All the way Man Utd!

2.) 10 Mar 2019 09:00:36
His dad might be better!

3.) 10 Mar 2019 11:00:53
Good post Timbo, it remains to be seen if he can continue to motivate and inspire if he is given the job full time but he certainly deserves a chance.

With good results comes expectation and having to deliver is significantly harder to what he's doing at the moment when the only real pressure is that he's put upon himself.

He'll soon find people won't be as forgiving when he's expected to challenge for the title and every game and performance matters.

Next season will be completely different but he's earned his chance and there are no guarantees; Mr Mourinho has taught us that.

4.) 11 Mar 2019 04:38:42
Great post Tim, well said.



20 Dec 2018 09:44:25
The obvious question now is do United sell Pogba? I can only imagine that his self-worth has jumped significantly and (yes unverified press speculation maybe) the comment attributed to him ‘messing with the wrong baller’ may be lies but are sadly believable.

For me he has a handful of matches to show a change of attitude, productivity and some respect for the club. If the showboating on the pitch and online continue then get rid.

For all of the negativity about Jose’s style of play we have little reason to doubt his judgement of a player’s inner qualities. Personally unless Pogba turns into a hybrid of Messi and Keane very quickly.


1.) 20 Dec 2018 10:19:37
It’s all there for Pogba and he is still our best midfielder. We have to harness that ability as him and Ander make a decent midfield pairing.

2.) 20 Dec 2018 10:02:31
The club are looking for a buyer, it has gone too far for him to remain here.

3.) 20 Dec 2018 17:26:27
The club are doing an Xmas raffle, where the winner gets Pogba and the runner up gets Sanchez.



17 Dec 2018 10:08:20
Great to see Lingard launching his fashion range on the eve of the Liverpool game. Don’t understand why Roy Keane was slamming this. He stated, and I’m paraphrasing, that a professional and committed squad wouldn’t have tolerated that in his day.

Utter rubbish I’m sure. Sir Alex had an eye for an investment and would have appreciated Jessie’s eye for fashion. Surely doing this wouldn’t be a problem. After all yesterday’s match is only 90 minutes out of Jessie’s week. Hardly a full time career so needs something outside of football and his social media to keep a young person off the streets.

Roy needs to let go. He put too much time and effort in to football. Look at home now. Serial winner. Respected as a player. Leader of men. Dare I say a legend.

What he know!


1.) 17 Dec 2018 11:11:41
I detect tongue firmly in cheek here.

Here we go anyway, David Beckham was the original fashion footballer of the modern era, before him it was Georgie Best. Well Keane wasn't around to stop Best, Charlton, Law and the rest were. Yet none of them did. Whether attempts were made who knows, yet Best did not change tact even if there were pleas from his team mates.

However, Keane was not only at the club during Beckham's time, he was captain and undisputed leader in that dressing room. So exactly how did Keane not tolerate that behaviour back then? What did he do to stop Beckham being a fashion footballer, and how successful was that? What did Giggs, Scholes, Neville, Butt ect do to not tolerate that behaviour from Beckham?

For me Keane was one of the best midfielders to have ever played for our club. He was everything you wanted from a player at that time. However, his talent on the field isn't matched by a personality off it. He is an angry and bizarrely bitter man. He often talks nonsense which doesn't stand up under scrutiny. He is very much a old man screaming things were different in his day, unable or unwilling to see the similarities and unprepared to accept the world has progressed and moved on.

It's a shame as some of these comments he makes only serve to tarnish the image of a club legend in some fans eyes.

{Ed025's Note - i totally agree shappy mate..

2.) 17 Dec 2018 11:21:36
Yh never like roy or anyone else from the early 90s united ever went on nights out and boozed themselves to sleep.

That doesn't exactly scream of the height of professionalism by modern standards, but it was what everyone did at time. The only difference being we were the best team in the country at that point.

Lingard, pogba and rashford are only doing what everyone else their age is doing like keane did before them. If they were winning no one would have a problem with their antics.

We are a poor side because we have poor players and a poor manager and have recruited poorly in numerous transfer windows. Lingard starting a fashion line, pogba getting a haircut and martial posting on social media doesn't change that.

Why our fans have a such an issue with what our players do in their private lives is beyond me.

{Ed025's Note - because they are professional sportsmen DSG, their playing career should be paramount and getting sidetracked by off field issues is not helping themselves or the club mate..

3.) 17 Dec 2018 11:46:01
The big difference is them boys back then trained hard, played hard, gave 100% on the field, they hated losing,
If they lost a game their mentality was train harder next week, they weren't trotting around the field, if they lost the ball they wouldn't be sitting on the pitch throwing their hands up in the air, they would be sprinting back looking to put in a tackle,

4.) 17 Dec 2018 11:40:31
Agree Ed but what they want to do in the private lives is up to them. I don't see getting plastered on the weekend any different to having other extra curricular activities.

Take the case of jesse lingard, with a fashion line he is not good enough for manchester united. Without it he is also not good enough for the club, he is just a medicore player that should go on to have an acceptable premier league career like cleverley, welbeck etc have done.

{Ed025's Note - if the club were doing well it would not be a problem DSG, the fact is the team is awful and performances well under par, supporters will want to know why and will look for reasons why international class players are playing like the dog and duck mate..

5.) 17 Dec 2018 11:51:15
Agree with Ed here. Why they start dabbling in other money ventures when they are raking it in anyway what's the point?

I know Beckham did it, but he didn't accompany it with childish videos inside dressing rooms and silly handshakes to highlight what idiots we have in the side. There are no men, they are all kids earning big bucks and not a care in the world. Win/ lose or draw we still get the same stupid handshakes and hand gestures, dancing and singing.

{Ed025's Note - you would think their time would be better spent on the training ground FZZ..

6.) 17 Dec 2018 12:09:33
Ridiculous doing this before a big game like that, Keane is spot on, professional football is your career, do summat after you’ve stopped playing or at least launch the thing in the international break.

{Ed025's Note - exactly WRD..

7.) 17 Dec 2018 13:02:16
You would think so Ed.

Footballers nowadays act like heirs to the throne rather than hard working people trying to win a football match for the people that help pay the wages, its as if football is secondary to whatever else they have going on in their life, a little bit on the side we turn up when we like and have a kick about.

{Ed025's Note - i cant argue with that mate..

8.) 17 Dec 2018 14:04:22
Couldn’t agree more ed. Nobody is saying footballers shouldn’t not have a life outside football but when you as a team are performing terribly then you are giving people ammunition when you bring out a clothing range on the eve of the biggest game of the season. The current crop of united players don’t understand what it means to play for this club and the mentality is so wrong. It will be a long and unfortunately difficult road back to the top. But until we remove the bad apples from the dressing room and bring in players with a winning mentality, then we will still be in this mess. Of course it’s not helped when the manager is so negative and consistently picking fights with those around him. It’s an utter shambles.

{Ed025's Note - i would love to disagree with you park...but your spot on mate..

9.) 17 Dec 2018 16:33:10
Good post Park!

10.) 17 Dec 2018 20:04:17
Seems like an odd opportunity just to have a pop at Keane shappy when in fact what he said was pretty much on the ball.

If Keane was in that dressing room now he'd be taking lumps outta them. It was only tolerated in his day because the likes of Beckham did nothing but give 100 percent and was week in week out, top class.

Take this average bunch, more worried about fashion labels, haircuts etc and then going out on the pitch and playing like that, Keane was bang on the money.



The Weakness of the Manchester United Way

31 Oct 2018 19:13:58
{Ed's Note - Timbo has posted a new article entitled, The Weakness of the Manchester United Way


1.) 31 Oct 2018 20:13:27
Well, where to start. Your premise that the United way has a fundamental weakness is complete balderdash. Docherty understood the United way, Atkinson understood the United way, it’s not just Busby and SAF who got it. They may not have enjoyed the same success but they understood what being a Manager of Manchester United was about. It’s about style and approach, a way of playing the game, hopefully supported by local talent, but in this day and age it is about ethos, approach, culture, and soul.

There are so many holes in your argument that I can’t be bothered addressing them all. I accept that there is much less time for a Manager to deliver nowadays, and growing talent is far harder than it perhaps was. However, United are 2nd in terms of home grown players currently playing in the top 2 leagues so we clearly still know what we are doing. The issue for most of us traditionalists is the style and approach of the current Manager; a narcissist for whom winning at all costs is all that matters.

The key issue which I think you did highlight (I’m going to paraphrase), is that the owners are more interested the balance sheet than the soul of the club and I do agree with that: our club generates more revenue than any other so the ownership could be an issue for some time. Having said that, if we had appointed a Klopp, or a Pep then we would be seeing football that reflects the United way, so to blame the owners is perhaps misguided. There are plenty of Managers who get it, who would give their right arm to manage our club, and who understand what is required. It’s really not rocket science.

2.) 31 Oct 2018 22:01:55
How many of atkinsons players came through the academy?
Not a league challenge between him and Docherty both were sacked despite their care free attitude to winning. Neither had any real success anywhere.
Atkinson did ok at west brom he was the eddie howe of his day if you like but he wasnt a winner.
Our huge growth came from our success with busby and fergie not from our style of play. Winning and success is what gives the platform for growth not tradition and free flowing football.
I agree that both together can and should be the ideal but let's not kid ourselves or anyone else the club grew to be as big as it is because we were winning not because we were great to watch and finished 5th every season. I grew up in the same era as you AJH so we know the pain of going to school every monday after another 2 points to liverpool due to watching hanson back pass 30 times a game and a 1 nil victory thanks to a king kenny dive and penalty and a heroic 3 2 defeat for united but playing attractive stuff.
So for me the doc and big ron didn't get united at all. Because attractive football and no titles got them fired. United managers have to win titles first amd foremost.
Now our owners seem happy to be just in the top 4 so maybe its them that just don't get it and don't get the united way.

3.) 31 Oct 2018 22:05:03
Good post Timbo not sure I agree with everything you've written but I enjoyed reading it nevertheless!

4.) 01 Nov 2018 05:32:03
Ken, the Doc got United. There may not have been a lot of Academy players but he built a young exciting team who played football the right way. He got us promoted, won the FA Cup and looked like he was building something and then he was sacked for entirely non-footballing reasons.

Big Ron won a couple of cups and had the opportunity to win the League when we stormed away in ‘85 but fell off a cliff after Christmas. That was a great team that deserved to win the League but it didn’t happen.

Winning is what matters, but winning the right way matters to me. Do we won first and then try and play in the right style, or do we play in the right style first and try to win. Pep seems to manage to do it, not sure why it has to be win first. We used to be the club who showed others how to play but nowadays, we have bee overtaken and the majority of successful clubs play the game the way it should be played.

My reply was a little harsh (sorry Timbo) but more and more people are suggesting or inferring that winning is what counts, irrespective of how you do it.

5.) 01 Nov 2018 06:49:01
Unfortunately AJH that's the way it is now. Fans are the equivalent of 'fair weather saiors' now - only interested when the going is good. The 'sing when you're winning' mentality, if you like. It's not just football though, it's the way of the world.
Reading some of the things posted on here are quite frankly embarrassing at times, especially after a loss. Social media is even worse. There is no balance either, because when we win it all goes quite. Just the way it is.

Money has of course always been a part of football, but over the last few years the game has changed so much that it is now almost unrecognisable to those eras such as Big Ron and The Doc. Times have changed, clubs have changes, fans have changed and certainly players have changed. It's all about the money and image for most of them now. It's all changed, and not for the better.

{Ed025's Note - im with you betty..

6.) 01 Nov 2018 06:59:16
Stood in the ground when the initial verve had started to wane we knew that we had to get two early goals to win because of the way we played. When we didn’t the team started to fizzle out as the game got to the latter stages. We became a good cup team as was proved but at the time despite what some thought we never really had a league winning team, very nice attacking football but fragile.
Loved himself, played nice football, had a bit more steel than The Docs team but when it got to February every year and Liverpool were out of sight, we all used to sing we have won x all again Atkinson
Did they get United, partly, but I watched the Scousers hoover up all the titles whilst for 20+ years we talked a good game. Stood on the Stretford End, we wanted titles more than fancy football, the United way was not what mattered as much as winning the major prizes and being relevant. I remember trying to defend our attacking football and the Scouse supporting mates just trotted out the list of trophies. Winning is what matters, second is first loser I think was a Scouse term but right. I don’t sit and regale the great football, but the wins, just like the 96 cup final, awful football but we won, the double and that is what is important.

7.) 01 Nov 2018 10:41:27
I don't find too much linkage one way or the other as to whether playing in an exciting way means teams will be successful or unsuccessful, people will be able to quote lots of examples of both .
We all want a smoking gun why we are so many points behind the winners since saf left . Many blame the manager, for many the tactics and for many the owners or ew.
The manager we have has been successful all his career and he must have confidence in his tactics and the owners have made up for a lack of investment in the later fergie years by ploughing vast sums in since fergie left .
I find why we have been so many points off the pace for so long is other teams player recruitment has been so much better than ours, this isn't just in Jose's time but the last two aswell, when we bought players others have bought better .
I won't do an endless list of names but when we have been buying players since fergie left, look at who our rivals bought instead, it's not that we didn't spend it's others have done it better.

8.) 01 Nov 2018 12:07:11
I’m not suggesting winning at all costs at all AJH. Quite the opposite. I’ve given up on Jose because he’s not the United way - I hoped in time he would be. That our values would rub off on him. I stuck by him because the United way also involves an unwavering level of support from the board, which I felt was needed to stamp down on the ego of certain players.

I’m just asking a question AJH about our desired values in particular relating to youth. My issue is that football as a whole has lost its soul. Up and down the country match day has changed so much for the worse. It’s not a community embracing activity any more it’s now a TV driven social media event, and that the “United way” as we know it will struggle to survive in it. I’d love to think one day the bubble bursts and it somehow re-embraces its roots.

I agree that Ron built a great team. It suffered through cruel circumstances that prevented a nailed on league title. Hughes leaving and Robson’s injuries key within that. We should have one the 10 in a row at the beginning we’re it not for Luton’s appalling pitch. I cried all the way home as a child that day.

But it was not the Sir Matt or Sir Alex example of the “United way” involving a spine of youth. Whiteside was maybe the limited youth product to some extent. m? Don’t recall many others off top of my head. Also Pep is the worst investor in youth. Phil Foden. He’d be playing now under Sir Alex. Sane rarely appears now. Pep is arguably worse than Jose.

The fact is that football for me becomes pointless with this merry-go round of players and managers. It just comes down to investor funds. Make football interesting again by capping transfer fees and salaries at a level that truly restricts club spending, brings back a sense of club community and the focus of competition returns to the pitch from the bank account. Then we’ll see who the truly great managers are and be able to embrace the United way again.

I obviously know this won’t happen. but I can dream.

9.) 01 Nov 2018 18:11:39
Ajh i agree with you and said it above the ideal is the win playing great football. The doc and big ron couldn't do that in the lwague decent managers but not top notch they only did half the job. They played nice football but count sustain a title challenge despite big ron being the league's biggest spender. Jose has also only done half the job but the other way around. Won a couple of cups lost a final runners up in the league is decent results but with poor football.
I don't think we will win the league now but for me all that matters between now and the end of this season is winning results because that will give us a better platfoem for next season in terms of attracting players coaches or owners.
At the outset of this season we had to close a significant gap to city and hold off a resugent liverpool and everybody knew chelsea and arsenal would improve. Success usually helps breed further sustained success at the big clubs so i'm not fussed how we get our next title because even if that is jose winning it ugly it will give us a better platform to build upon going forward. I think he will leave in the summer i hope he can squeeze enough out the players to finish top 4 and maybe qualify for cl last 16 and a good fa cup run.

10.) 01 Nov 2018 20:22:41
Not all about winning for me loved following United in the 80s .
I'm not sure the club was built on success either, 26 years with out a title but still had a huge support . it was built on a tragedy and 1 great era that still defines the United way .

Madrid have a way Munich do Barcelona do so do United.

No god given right to win and it's not as easy as many seem to think.

11.) 01 Nov 2018 21:12:35
My favourite players still come from that era, jred. Hill and Coppell. I certainly didn't start supporting them because of their success.

12.) 01 Nov 2018 21:12:40
Absolutly jred nobody has a god given right to win. you have to earn that right every year season after season.
This club was not built on a tragedy imo it was built on the way the club responded to tragedy and came back to win and dominate .

13.) 01 Nov 2018 21:28:40
Ken if it was built on the way it responded to tragedy it's still built on tragedy.
We didn't really dominate anything until the late 90s and fergy .
Why did you start supporting the club .

Olsen, Hughes, Robson you could go on and on . You didn't support the club back then because we won things, but you did support them , it was a bit deeper .

14.) 01 Nov 2018 22:08:29
My first live match was 77 cup final. I supported them from as long before that as i can remember. Hughes robson and scholes are my 3 fav all time players.
I never said i support the club because we win.
I said the mist important thing for any club is to win and be successful. Its professional sport and business. So results come before style. I don't feel any realy affinity with the players they come and go and usually do so to suit themselves.
I love the clyb just as much when losing as when winning. But i want the club to be competing to win the best titles every year. Its not always possible but it never would affect my loyalty to the club as a supporter.
I don't care who owns the club who coaches the club or who plays for the club i just want them all to do well whoever it is.
I don't think there is 1 way to play or to win . But i would enjoy a back to the wall robbery like the cl cup final win in 99 a lot more than a swashbuckling 3 all draw .
I want the club to win i want it to be done with style but i'd take an ugly win before a pretty silver medal everytime.

15.) 01 Nov 2018 22:20:21
Good thread enjoyed reading all the posts.

16.) 01 Nov 2018 22:52:03
No real affinity for the players but you mention Hughes and Robson from 30 years ago .
As a supporter why did you follow United tho .

I want style and titles why wouldn't any supporter?
For the club it might be all about winning, when I was playing it was all about winning but supporting a club is more about enjoyment .

I loved the history of the club, supported the players not just the name of the club .
You look after your own imo, and very few fans are lucky enough to support a team that wins things . The vast majority don't but they follow there teams are the country anyhow .
So for me as a fan winning things is just a nice to have.

17.) 02 Nov 2018 06:40:12
The game has changed so much and the challenge after such a long run of success is that in some respects you can only be disappointed. Through the ‘80’s you never knew what might happen. I remember a couple of 5-0 home wins and the sheer delight we got from such a big win. I used to go week in, week out, even when we were struggling, we had some great players but never delivered consistency. My favourite game was the FA Cup semi final in ‘83, conceding a goal to Arsenal before Robson and Whiteside scored screamers to take us to Wembley.

In some respects I wish I didn’t care as much as I do, the game is not the game I fell in love with. Money is king, players are taking over, cheating is rife, win at all costs, obscene salaries, corrupt governing body. I want us to win things but I want us to retain our soul of who we are. I’m not sure the Glazers get that or even care about it and God knows who they will eventually sell to. It’s all a bit sad.

18.) 02 Nov 2018 16:53:56
Ajh how disjointed where you after the 99 cl final win?

19.) 02 Nov 2018 18:35:16
Ken, I was delighted. We had rampaged through Europe that year and played some scintillating football. The final was a let down, we were outplayed and didn’t deserve to win.

If we had played defensively and snuck 1-0 wins through the group I would have been less than happy. You could tick a box that we had won the cup but so what?

20.) 02 Nov 2018 20:05:01
I know mate the final was a let down but considering we were missing 2 of our most influential players coming out with a win was fantastic.

21.) 02 Nov 2018 21:05:54
Phil Neville and Becks in central midfield. For me it was the game that said Becks could not dominate a game.

22.) 02 Nov 2018 23:56:16
Neville was on the bench it was but n becks.
We did miss beckham on the right that night.

23.) 03 Nov 2018 05:42:32
So it was. For years I’ve thought it was Neville, I wonder what else my memory has forgotten!



I now think Jose Mourinho must leave Manchester United

25 Oct 2018 11:21:42
{Ed's Note - Timbo has posted a new article entitled, I now think Jose Mourinho must leave Manchester United


1.) 25 Oct 2018 11:50:18
Fantastic post mate. There are managers available that we should be looking at - jardim, zidane and even Blanc. Why can’t we act like a big club and actually make a decision when it needs to be made? Look at real. They’ve had a poor season and they are looking to change manager. We dither and dally until it’s too late. Then we rush and appoint someone who doesn’t fit. Jardim is available. Just get him in now.

{Ed002's Note - Why would you say Jardim?}

2.) 25 Oct 2018 11:59:56
Think he would be a good fit ed. Unless he isn’t available?

{Ed002's Note - You don't think being able to speak decent English would be one of the important criteria for a Manchester United manager then?}

3.) 25 Oct 2018 12:12:59

It's possible to learn English, so people understand, just look at Jamie Carragher and how well he has done since learning to speak English.

4.) 25 Oct 2018 12:35:58
Poch didn't speak English.

{Ed002's Note - Yes he did, he just would not do interviews in English.}

5.) 25 Oct 2018 13:08:44
Maybe so ed. But the same issue would be encountered with zidane.

{Ed002's Note - So?}

6.) 25 Oct 2018 14:04:04
That doesn't mean I want Jardim Ed, was just saying and you corrected me.

If i'm honest everything seems such a mess I wouldn't know who I'd want. So sacking Jose, is that going to help?

{Ed002's Note - This has been done to death.}

7.) 25 Oct 2018 15:24:07
Picking a manager is undoubtedly difficult. I'm not envious and don't pretend to know the answer. However Emery at Arsenal proves that relatively instant change can be achieved even with a manager that many of the club's supporters would not have made first choice. United as a club seem intent on making transition a large part of its current culture. This is to some degree made worse by the relentless coverage of Scholes' comments and the media's love of our problems.

Emery obviously hasn't proved anything significant yet, however he's heading in the team in the right direction with football that's superb at times - these are feelings I haven't experienced at United or watching the box for years! Clubs mocked by United supporters are now leaving us standing in the slow lane.

Re the Jardim argument, it didn't prevent Poch from progressing at Spurs and arguably in his early days Bielsa starting well at Leeds. Leeds back in the Prem with us struggling will only make life much worse. Our third nemesis getting the three fingers from Jose!

I've no doubt other managers in different countries didn't speak the native language before experiencing success. For me its not just about language fit, its about finding a manager whose own footballing philosophy and 'aura' match that of United. Jose has been at United for three years. That's plenty of time for Jardim to learn English and to have a positive cultural and footballing impact. I don't see anything to lose other than Glazer money on a Jose pay off. Jardim also has some fabulous youngsters in the squad and on its edges to nurture making his appointment even more attractive.

United is also a cosmopolitan squad, with Spanish almost as important as English. Quite frankly having a manager whose press conferences are made more passives by translation may make a refreshing change whilst also removing a lot of the negative media attention that hangs over the manager's words and scowl. At the moment every United match is overshadowed by what Jose has to say before it. Its just tedious beyond words.

8.) 25 Oct 2018 14:23:32
Rhetorical Ed. Course its been done to the death.

9.) 25 Oct 2018 15:18:00
Most of the players in our squad don't use english as their first language, maybe jardim could find one suitable to communicate with them in.

{Ed002's Note - It is like some sort of joke reading all of this nonsense.}

10.) 25 Oct 2018 16:12:16
Thanks ed, appreciate the feedback.

11.) 25 Oct 2018 16:25:31
What about talking to; all the people at the hotel he'll live in? The driver of the private cars? The press? Staff at old Trafford? Staff at Carrington? The directors themselves? That's just considering his work what about if he goes out for a meal? To the shop? Takes his family on a day out? Or when a fan trys to stop him and ask for a photo then calls him all the names under the sun on social media just because he didn't understand? Whilst it might not have a massive impact on his ability to coach the team it will affect his everyday life. or is the main requirement for a man utd nanager that he be surly unhappy and not like being in Manchester? Because if that's the case I don't think we'll find anyone better. There has to be a clear plan if we are to change not just let it be knee jerk and go for the latest big name. Like both eds have said there are more than just the manager that needs solving. The players need rules the recruitment needs looking at and most importantly something needs to be done about the problems getting to games on time.

12.) 25 Oct 2018 18:11:37
Well whatever language he is using at the moment, it doesn't seem to be working too well 😂.

13.) 25 Oct 2018 20:14:47
I would love leonardo jardim, he plays attacking football, has shown good tactical knowledge and has brought through youth players.

I accept he might not speak good English, if any at all, but with Herrera, mata, degea, rojo, Sanchez all speaking Spanish as well as the club being able to bring in translators I don’t see communication being a problem.

Anything that takes us back towards our cloud traditions of brining through youth, wing play and attacking football will be a move in the right direction.

Don’t get me wrong though, changing manager will not be a miricale cure. We need to modernise our structure, we need a coherent plan (scouting, style of play, short term, medium term and long term targets) .

At the moment we are like a lottery winner who accepts the publicity to announce their win. Everybody knows we are cash rich, that we will over pay and that we don’t know true class/ quality from an overpriced sparkly piece of crap.

In my personal opinion I would like to Jose move on. He is a bad fit for the club, he doesn’t really want to be here and the board won’t give him what he needs to succeed. On that basis it is best for all parties to part way and ideally now so the new manager can come in now and assess the squad between now and Xmas. He then will know what he needs in the transfer market. Why let Jose spend money and then sack him in March.

14.) 26 Oct 2018 08:27:28
Could Robson and Venables speak Spanish when they took their respective Barcelona posts? Genuine question if anyone knows.

{Ed002's Note - I truly, truly hope that you all get the non-English speaking manager with no relevant experience and know nothing about, but have the Kleenex out for.}

15.) 26 Oct 2018 08:44:58
I don't understand why people think we should drop mourinho for another manager who would initially struggle in Manchester. I have no problem looking at Jardim from a coaching side but he doesn't speak English, he wouldn't only interact with man utd personnel he'd have to live in Manchester (or at least England) so would struggle to settle until he learnt the language. if he learnt it, how many players over the years have struggled living abroad because they are unwilling or unable to learn the native language, look at bale for god's sake, the same could happen with a manager and the wed
'd be in exactly the situation we're in now with a manager not entirely happy in Manchester. That's not to say Jardim would be a bad appointment but it needs to be considered properly not just because he's available.

16.) 26 Oct 2018 09:49:56
Does Jardim speak Spanish? Pretty sure he is Portuguese. He has had a good run at Monaco and looks to be a very good manager. However, there are many different factors to being successful as a manager. This is heightened at our club because there are other issues behind the scenes.

We have no leadership or sense of direction coming from above. We need a director of football to help guide the club and give us a footballing plan and sense of direction.

We have several players it would seem who either don't want to be at our club or consider themselves bigger than our club. We need to root out any disruptive influences in the dressing room to create a better harmony around the team.

We need to continue to overhaul our scouting network. Since Sir Alex retired we have signed over 500m worth of players, yet we seem to be getting very little value for money. Many of the signings have either struggled or been a poor choice of signing as they were never going to fit into the culture of the EPL or England, or the style the manager wants to play. Millions wasted by poor signings and I don't think it's fair or even factually correct to just hang the poor signings around the next of the manager who was in charge at the time of signing them. Good managers aren't always good scouts.

Then we need to find a manager who fits the identity of the club and can work well with our new DoF, the players and the scouting staff. Someone who will play good football, the United way.

Finally we the fans need to get behind the club, the management and the players. We need to show patience, and unwavering support even if we don't entirely agree with every decision. We can't get on the back of a manager or a player just because he isn't the one we wanted.

If we want to play like United we need to be United.

17.) 26 Oct 2018 10:48:52
Seemed to have changed your tune abit shappy? Not having a dig just a genuine question - why suddenly are you backing the manager? It is clear that he is not getting a tune out of the players, so why should we keep him?

18.) 26 Oct 2018 14:28:03
Yes park, shappy, I was under the impression that you wanted rid of Jose before.

19.) 26 Oct 2018 14:38:42
I'm not saying to keep him, but I fail to see the logic in sacking him until we have the rest of the house in order. If we give in to media pressure and sack him when they want it leaves a huge mess and no proper support or structure for the next manager.

That will likely undermine the next managers chance of succeeding and thus create an even bigger mess.

I never wanted Mourinho, and I've made that clear all along. However, I have backed him for his first two years. At the end of last season I could see that this season was likely to be a struggle and could end badly. So I wanted the change in the summer. That didn't happen, so now in my opinion it is best to stick with Mourinho until the end of the season. That is unless his position becomes untenable, in which case we should have a temporary management set up until the necessary plans are in place to make a full time appointment.

I don't think this season will work out well with Mourinho, however, changing managers mid season while everything else is in limbo would mean just digging ourselves deeper into the s**t.

So now we need to ride it out as best we can. We will have to accept poor negative football for the time being. It ain't pretty, but it's the path we have chosen.

20.) 26 Oct 2018 10:20:34
Ed 002, I truly, truly have no idea what you are on about. I was asking a genuine question, my interest having been piqued by the discussion about managers being able to speak the language of the club they were going to manage. I don't want Jardim, I agree that would be silly if he doesn't speak the language. My question was, were Barcelona silly to appoint those two (El Tel and Robson) or did they speak Spanish when they signed? It's a reasonable question but your default seems to be to try to belittle people who are genuinely trying to engage in polite discussion, which is of course your prerogative, if a little bit childish.

{Ed002's Note - Take it to the European page and I can explain. It is nothing to do with Manchester United and why are you asking if you are unlike the others who wan’t someone who struggles to speak English as their new manager.}

21.) 26 Oct 2018 16:40:22

You make a very valid point about getting our house in order and restructuring the club before making a decision. I was a big Jose fan but he has taken us as far as he can imo. The club aren’t going to back him/ didn’t buy who he wanted in the summer so what’s the point in holding on to him? We have some very good attacking and flair players and yet we can’t even break down the likes of derby at home. I can’t see us finishing any higher than 6th. Another manager may not win the league with this squad, but I’m pretty damn sure that he would get the attack firing to a higher level than Jose has.

Some of our players aren’t ‘bad’ players. They are just extremely low on confidence and are suffering under these tactics. I feel we should be looking to change the manager to at least have a slim chance of salvaging what is left of this nightmare season. An attack of martial, rashford, Sanchez, Lukaku supported by pogba and mata should be blowing teams away. Add Fred and pereira to it and you have the makings of a very strong midfield and attack.

Defence is still a problem but look how arsenal are performing. Poor defence so they compensate with attack. Credit to arsenal they restructured their club brilliantly to cope with the departure of Wenger. Granted they aren’t coming from a position of winning the league so any improvement by emery will be seen in a positive light. But they still planned properly. We are a joke. This club has been run so poorly for far too long. But by changing the manager to someone who can improve what’s on the pitch is always the first step for me. Then look to invest in a proper DoF.

22.) 26 Oct 2018 19:01:06
And what happens if your preferred choice for DoF doesn't get along or is able to work well with the manager you have just signed on a 4 year contract?
Do you sack a manager months into a contract or do you try and get two people who don't work well together to try and work together?
Would the new manager not want to sign his own players in January. We could then be stuck with expensive signings from another past manager when he leaves.

There are no guarantees, we could sack Jose hire someone else and still finish 6th. We might lose all our games 4-3. The new manager will have his preferred players, his favourites and those he doesn't trust.

For me until we have a DoF to find and hire the next manager I feel we are better at sticking with what we have. Bare in mind Woodward has hired Moyes, LvG and Mourinho.

The best option if Jose has to leave before next summer is to have McKenna and Carrick take over on a temporary basis. But then what happens when the new manager does take over will McKenna and Carrick be happy to go back to their previous roles or will we lose two young talented coaches.

23.) 26 Oct 2018 19:03:28
I have no idea when or if the Club will appoint a DoF. I have no idea if or when this happens we'll appoint the right person. Call me old fashioned but I still rather like the idea of a manager choosing his own players. I like the simplicity of a manager sitting down with his chairman and having a honest and frank conversation about what is required, how much money is available and what is achievable or not as the case may be. I still like the idea of honesty, co-operation and respect. A story of two men working together for the good of the Club. Call me naive but I like the thought that if promises are broken or relationships sour that honourable men will do the right thing for the good of the Club. Mourinho knew a bottomless pit of money didn't exist at Utd. He knew it would have to be spent intelligently and wisely. He knew his great adversary would be lavished with riches he could only dream of. He knew our great Club was located in a dull, cloudy, rainy corner of the North of England. He knew we had fallen behind, he knew he was inheriting an average and unbalanced squad. But Mourinho had also heard about Northern grit and determination, about an old stadium filled to capacity and dripping in history; A place where ghosts from the past still come together for a quiet kick about under the flood lights and chew the fat. A place where they are still young, a place where they still play on in the memory of everyone that was fortunate enough to see them play. We are a special Club and he knew all this before he came.

Our current plight has nothing to do with not having a DoF. Bad choices have been made, players have not developed or fulfilled their potential and constant public floggings and arguments with the board has resulted in a divided, demoralised and under achieving squad.

We all know how this ends. The Club have set a precedent after all, we don't need a crystal ball. The football will remain turgid, results will remain inconsistent, the board paralysed by indecision. January will come and go. No new players will arrive as the board can't decide if they back the manager or not. Jose mood will darken, there will be more falls outs, more egotistical ramblings, until the day comes when we can no longer make the top 4 and the axe will fall.

We don't need a DoF we already have a winning formula. All that is needed is a short history lesson, a tour of the museum and a visit to the old stadium stadium after dark, whilst the City sleeps to watch some ghosts play football the right way, the Manchester United way for they are our past and our future. Our football heritage, our DNA.

24.) 26 Oct 2018 19:28:53
Funny enough RWWD, Sir Bobby Robson is one of the reasons our very own manager got into football as a interpreter. So there lies your answer.

25.) 26 Oct 2018 22:58:51
Shappy you say we wait until we appoint a DoF before we appoint a new manager. We’ve been trying to appoint one since 2016. I appreciate that it’s a process and these things should not be rushed, but we don’t seem any closer to appointing one. Please correct me if I am wrong ed.

So what do we do? Do we persist with someone who doesn’t want to be at the club, who clearly is unhappy and who is not improving the side or producing any identity or style of play. Or do we try and get some sort of excitement and good feeling back into the club by appointing someone who will entertain the fans and unite us together through positivity, exciting football? It’s a no brainer. Everything surrounding the club is depressing at the moment. The first step would be to get the team performing better on the pitch.

Let’s enjoy watching united again. Sure we may not finish above 6th even if we change the manager. But investing in someone who is willing to build and work with the current group of players is much more attractive than a manager who complains consistently about his own players. There is a lot of talent here and if a new manager can get them playing anywhere near it’s potential then results will improve dramatically. A director of football can be worked around the manager imo. Perhaps appointing someone who has worked under a DoF structure would be the logical step to take.

26.) 27 Oct 2018 10:11:40
So what your suggesting then Park is to trust in Ed Woodward to hire a manager who'll play good entertaining football?

Rather than sign a manager with a big profile who'll help sell the club to corporations to enable the club to get new sponsorship deals.

If we put Moyes down to Sir Alex then the two managers Ed Woodward has brought to the club have been LvG and Mourinho, both managers with a big reputation and profile and both play negative football.

Hardly encouraging if we are relying on him to bring in our next manager.

He will go for Zidane, he can bring him to the club without paying compensation. He has a huge profile and will help the club sign new sponsorship deals.

However, Zidane doesn't speak English. He will demand signing his own players. He has never truly been tested. He has done well in Europe but has been underwhelming in the league. And that's in a far less competitive league than the EPL. Is Zidane able to improve players? I'm not sure anyone improved under him at Real Madrid. He just had a fantastic group of players headed up by the likes of Ronaldo at his peak, Modric, Bale, Kroos and Ramos.

Zidane would be a disaster signing for us. And he is the likely candidate if Ed Woodward gets to pick our next manager.

That's why I feel it is best if we hold off as long as we can until a man with some football knowledge is in place to hire our next manager.

27.) 27 Oct 2018 12:59:41
Shappy I understand your point about Woodward, but l honestly can’t see how you think that keeping mourinho is of benefit at all. He has shown that he is teetering on the edge of a full blown implosion and his consistent reference to lack of signings and winning three premier leagues is becoming particularly tiresome and embarrassing. Keeping him would do more good than bad if the board aren’t willing to back him over January and the summer.

Yeh Woodward will probably go for zidane. Personally I don’t think he is a good fit either. But you can’t argue that zidane wouldn’t get us playing better football. There is no way that our attackers are this poor. Sanchez does not become this poor a player over night. When you see so many attacking players looking so average the common denominator is clearly the manager. We are at risk of losing players such as martial and De Gea, with the latter being a travesty if we do. Do we risk keeping mourinho and then lose out on keeping these players because they don’t want to play for him? What benefit is that to the club? Especially from a financial point it is a poor deal.

I refuse to believe that a new manager can’t get more out of the current group of players. Sure, I do agree that we will probably encounter similar problems in terms of purchasing players if a director is not appointed. But at least we would have a manager who will work with the players and aim to maximise that potential within the squad, rather than beating them down. Poch, jardim and even Blanc would get more from this squad than Jose. Even zidane would. That’s my point. No logical reason to keep Jose apart from not having to pay his compensation. Unless he is bought a new defence, I cannot see him turning this around to be honest.

28.) 27 Oct 2018 13:21:41
A typo in the post above - keeping Jose would do more bad than good*.

29.) 27 Oct 2018 17:37:33
In the short term from now until the end of the season we would likely see an up lift. But it will be short lived if we don't hire the right person. We could then be lumbered with the new managers expensive signings that don't fit into what the club or the next manager wants. We would then have to sack him and pay his compensation.
That would then be 4 managers in 6-7 years and the club will start to have a bad reputation, the best managers won't want to come to our club. We are then stuck in an endless cycle of having to hire second tier managers rather than the best, then when they fail to succeed we first them and the downward spiral continues.

Sacking Mourinho now and replacing him might be best for the next 8 months, however sticking with him might be better for the next 3-5 years.

We as fan have been shortsighted once before in our recent past in pushing for LvG to be sacked and we are reaping the rewards for that now. Maybe we need to try a different tact if we want a different outcome.




Timbo's rumour replies


Click To View This Thread

08 Nov 2018 17:56:41
@King. When did I say I wasn't pleased? I have no idea why you make such sweeping and unfair judgements over one simple, tongue in cheek, yet fairly accurate post. No sense.

But that is not as ridiculous as to suggest that Matic and Pogba made Herrera’s role easier. What!?! £90m on Pogba, World Cup winning, goal scoring, assist making saviour returning to the club. He actually provided nothing but a threat to our own defence, not just last night but since joining United, by constantly losing possession in front of our back four. He showboats constantly in the wrong parts of the pitch and places us under unnecessary pressure. Even Juventus players have acknowledged his regression.

My point was United won despite Pogba. This is very often the case.




Click To View This Thread

28 Oct 2018 08:53:19
Really don’t see how anyone could say Jose hasn’t had enough time or money to not be in the position we find ourself.

The fact he could have had more were United not servicing such debt levels is completely irrelevant to that fact. If we’re suggesting spending power correlates to league position United should only be second to City by a few points.

The fact we’re not by so much can only have Jose to blame.




Click To View This Thread

27 Oct 2018 13:21:19
I'm with you DW20. I'm just the same, and still have to ponder urges to go back to supporting him. Problem is Jose just isn't giving me any reason to believe in him. Everybody deserves a 'leap of faith' form of support every now and again. but three years later with only some (open to debate) fortunate second-tier cup victories in the cupboard isn't good enough. More than anything, seeing how our rivals are playing such attractive football hurt more than anything else. I just want to be entertained. Right now United dumb my senses enough to visit the dentist.




Click To View This Thread

16 Aug 2018 14:46:30
Oh dear. Football Manager clearly ignores the closure of transfer windows. Sell and buy whenever you want.




Click To View This Thread

09 Aug 2018 20:10:31
It’s utterly ridiculous. It’s an embarrassment. I’m not sure what some people prioritise! Football or transfers. It’s all becoming so artificial, 24hours and Sky will show the “who spent the most” league table so we can all whinge relentlessly about Woodward, the Glazers or Jose depending on your toxic point of view.





Timbo's banter replies


Click To View This Thread

26 Feb 2019 00:01:46
Football has been poor. Ole is benefitting from his history with the club as well as a to be expected bounce effect. I have no doubt he can become an excellent manager, however he shouldn't be learning his trade at United. United is a massive job not too dissimilar in many ways to what Poch took over at Spurs. Poch has exceeded expectations at every club he has been at. Take a moment to consider what that might mean at United!

Breaks my heart to say it, however I can't help but feel that Ole is simply trying to 'be Fergie' - but that strategy won't last. Ole has brought back discipline, emphasised club values and brought a smile to the club. But that's not enough, and with the greatest respect could have been done by many people. Paul Ince was actually correct - he just looked too smug saying it.

Even if 'we' get top 4 and an FA Cup - which I don't believe we will anyway - I'm not totally convinced. However, I still expect him to get the job!




Click To View This Thread

23 Dec 2018 11:44:20
Did we concede an equaliser?




Click To View This Thread

18 Dec 2018 15:24:26
Completely agree AJH. He has worked wonders with England, including two players that Jose has struggled with. I see Southgate as a great alternative to Poch (my first choice) if United cannot get him.

I just don't get some people!




Click To View This Thread

08 Dec 2018 10:38:17
@Shappy, tell me one other broadcaster who has been given a consistent chance in either of their places? Do viewing figures suddenly slump when they go on holiday? Or do they merely get sports fans, and football fans in particular, because there is no alternative at that time? They have literally cornered the market. You could put The Beast in there and figures would stay the same!




Click To View This Thread

07 Dec 2018 19:48:22
@Shappy Durham and Brazil get the most listeners because they broadcast at peak times. Nothing to do with their expertise.