02 Aug 2020 10:57:53
Ed,

There are reports smalling is returning from his loan after the clubs not being able to agree a deal,

Do you know if there is interest from anywhere else or do utd plan to keep him?

Thanks in advance.

{Ed002's Note - The problem is that he is being priced out of a move by MU.}


1.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 11:58:56
They should pay the price we feel he is worth if Roma want him so badly. We are made to pay exactly what other clubs want for their players so it should be the same the other way around.

{Ed002's Note - Roma are not going to pay over the odds and will let the amateurs keep him.}


2.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 12:23:55
Damon, we have a reputation for paying over the odds for players. The only way that will ever change is if we start walking away from deals when the price is too much.

Leicester say Maguire is £80 million. We spend the whole summer trying to play hardball, pay the £80 million.

Sporting say £70 million for Bruno. We throw in an insulting offer and then go back cap in hand in January and pay £70 million.

Dortmund say £120 million for Sancho. We will eventually pay it.

When it comes to selling players we're worse. We had a decent bid for Rojo from Everton awhile ago. We moved the goalposts at the last minute and asked for more money. We'll eventually sell him for near or nothing.

Same with Smalling. Agreed a fee and then changed our mind.

Gave Jones a new contract to protect his value and now he gets €120k a week for the privilege of having his value protected.

Because we're awful when negotiating for players, we're trying to do what we think clubs do to us.

Rodri is Citys most expensive signing at £62 million. Let that sink in.

One of my problems with the Sancho deal is this sets a precedent to all future deals. We're an easy target in the transfer market and thus will never change unless we change.


3.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 12:36:40
To be honest the 120m for Sancho doesn't bother me half as much as the reported 50m fee his agent wants.

At 50m his AGENT would our 6th most expensive signing off all time.

Sancho 120m
Pogba 89m
Maguire 80m
Lukaku 75m
Di Maria 65m
Fred 52m

Sancho's agent 50m

Bruno 46m (initial fee, but will go up) .

Let that sink in.


4.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 12:54:52
Shappy - I'm not sure where you've seen the agent wants £50m but if that's the case the game has gone mad and that deal will never happen! I just can't believe that!


5.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 13:13:10
You're right Shappy. It's the cost of the entire deal that irks me. DLIB, it was Mr ed002 that alluded to the agents fee. He has since said he has lowered it for other clubs. What it is now I don't know but I would imagine it's still pretty high.

Torres was earmarked as a replacement for Sancho at Dortmund. I think a third party recommended him to us. City have signed the player for £25 million. I havnt seen any if him to be honest but it just goes to show what can be spent when you're proactive in the market.

It's very hard to change the mindset of the club in regards to transfers but it's clear over the last few years that what we're doing isn't baring fruit.


6.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 13:16:36
I'm no expert but even if it was true Dortmund would surely have to pay a hefty amount towards that figure anyway. I'm
don't think Utd would pick up the full amount.

I think it's best to steer clear of the financial aspects of transfer deals they are often complicated, heavily incentivised and payed in instalments so the full cost isn't always completely transparent at first sight!

I have no idea why Utd are so hesitant to sell players. Most of the squad are on insane wages and the likes of Smalling, Jones and even Rojo have been at the Club a long time so it seems like a no brainier to get any fee they can and get them off the wage bill. Without having a detailed knowledge of football finance there must be something we're missing as in terms of generating revenue Utd are still one of the best. I find it hard to believe they don't know what there doing but I suppose the fact all theses players are still at the Club tells its own story.


7.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 13:55:45
DLIB, it's the total cost of the Sancho deal that has be questioning it.

Close to 200m according to Ed002. Which is insane.

Chelsea were interested in Sancho, but for the same price as the proposed Sancho deal they will likely sign Havertz, Ziyech and Werner.

While Sancho is an excellent player I strongly suspect those three will have a greater impact at Chelsea than Sancho would have had on his own.


8.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 14:11:34
If he has been playing well for Roma then we should get market value. If Ake is worth £41 million, then maybe £15 million is a fair price.


9.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 14:44:50
havertz won't be cheap and there will be agent fees etc to add on to that deal as well.
I think it is fair to say united are lookjng to get the total cost of the deal for sancho down .


10.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 15:46:20
That's disapointing to hear Ed. He clearly is not in the managers plans and considering we paid around 10m for him it is not like he owes the club anything at this point. Hopefully they can find a solution to help him move on rather than pricing him out of a move away from the club where he obviously has no future.


11.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 16:10:19
Karl given the prices quoted i don't think we are doing anything wrong, he is worth more than 15-20mn we are asking, if a club can't pay 15mn for its best cb last season, that's on them, not on us. Also he owes us the period he is under contract for. We have to pay sanchez, jones etc until someone takes them off us and same goes for the players, if they want to leave get the buyer to meet our price. if smalling is so desperate to leave he should convince roma to pay the 4-5mn difference there seems to be in valuation.


12.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 17:09:43
Csm yeh i apreciate that point of view as well. Just feel our squad is bloated with players that are either not good enough or not wanted. If we want to move forward i just think it would be more beneficial to move on the likes of Smalling, Rojo and god forbid Jones and use what ever money we get towards some one who is actually going to compete for a starting birth in the team.


13.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 17:37:24
It's time to cut players loose and allow them to move on. The idea the Smalling at 30 is worth more because Ake at 25 went for 40m isn't really a solid point.

I think about 15m during the current situation for a player who we don't want moving to a league that financially isn't on the same level as the EPL is about right.


14.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 18:44:33
Shappy koulibaly at 29 will go for 70-80mn smalling is worth atleast 1/ 4 of that minimum.


15.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 19:03:40
We turned down 15m for rojo last summer which was madness.
Our lack of ability to move players on is hindering the possibility of improving the squad.
Jones rojo sanchez smalling periera dalot made zero contribution last season or the season before.
Mata and lingard close to hinging that list. I don't believe any have any future and cost close to 55m a year in wages.
Honestly that just mental.
Shappy it rather five sanchos agent the 50m and get those lads off the books.
55m a year for the above.
Its a very sobering thought and its no wonder we can't get shut of them who on their right mind would pay that lot 55m between them (less loan clubs contribution to their wages)
If they weren't there we wouldn't miss them one bit.
If we raise 55m in fees combined with 55m saving in wages that's a nice chunk of change.
Kids from the academy could cover the amount of games they get.


16.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 20:38:03
It works both ways, if we hae a price we want for smalling and roma won't pay it I don't see how we are in the wrong? Why is it standard practice for us to be amateur because we won't accept a fee lower than what we want?

{Ed002's Note - The club is very poorly run which is why there are recruitment problems over a Director of Football. If the players cannot be sold then none will arrive. Perhaps that would be the best solution.}


17.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 20:50:05
CSM, what Koulibaly will go for really doesn't come in to it. Neymar went for 200m does that make Lingard worth 30m? Or 18m? Or 10m?

Koulibaly is rated as one of the best CB's in the world. Smalling isn't even considered the best CB at United and we have a pretty poor selection of CB's.

When we buy players we put them on deals paying them more than most other clubs would pay. When selling those players other clubs have to either pay those players more than they are worth in wages, possibly upsetting the apple cart, or get the player to accept a pay cut.

Often United end up having to take a hit on the player sales to cover the excess in their wages their new club will take on. All part of being a top club. We rarely lose our best players, we tend to sell players who are on the way down and not on the up. It means we buy high and sell low.

Ken, I think you're spot on. We just need to get the players out of the club who aren't contributing but costing us huge amounts on wages. If we got Smalling, Jones, Rojo, TFM, Mata, Andreas Pereira and Sanchez off the books we might raise 50-80m in sales, but save over 100m in wages.

We have the second highest wages bill in world football and are a million miles away from being the second best team in world football.


18.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 21:02:20
Exactly ed002.
We can't just keep adding players.
We have huge money tied up paying tens of millions in wages to players that make zero contribution. 3rd and 4th choice players.
We need to bite the bullet and clear them out. Or else this rebuild like those before will be build on the foundations of sand.
Deano no clubs that most of these guys could play for can afford their wages and big fees. Just get what we can and let them go.


19.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 21:15:54
Fair enough Ed, however i would still love and support the club if that was the case 🤷‍♂️ you do seem to be very negative about the club most of the time and it gets my back up purely because I love united, i'm not being disrespectful and i'm not having a go, but if you can't stick up for you own club there is no point.

I don't like the way the club has been run, i'm not in love with the owners or the people tasked with the day to day running of the business side of things, yet I still don't see why we should sell players for less than they are valued by us 🤷‍♂️.

{Ed002's Note - It needs to change Delano if the club are to get back on track. The problems have to be fixed.}


20.) 02 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 21:42:18
I know where you are coming from ed and like I said I wasn't trying to be confrontational, its just not that easy being a united fan at the best of times, we don't seem to be liked by fellow football followers for some reason 🤣 oh and I wish my name was Delano 🤣🤣🤣.


21.) 03 Aug 2020
02 Aug 2020 23:13:12
I'd like to know the actual fee the club are looking for though to be honest. If its 15-20 million that's not unreasonable at all in my opinion.

On the Sancho deal mumbles I don't see us paying 120 million for him in the current climate. I really don't see it happening mate. Time will obviously tell though 🤔.


22.) 03 Aug 2020
03 Aug 2020 02:17:13
Shappy yes smalling isn't the best cb at utd but that is because we want to play out of the back, smalling this season has shown he is a much better defender than any utd have. He has been one of the best cb's in serie a and has been much better than koulibaly. So whatever valuation koulibaly goes for should affect what smalling is deemed to be worth.


23.) 03 Aug 2020
03 Aug 2020 09:26:03
CSM, Smalling has benefited from moving to a much slower paced league. He isn't pressed as much, doesn't have to rush his passes, while his pace means he's pretty much as quick as most players in that league.

At Roma we are currently paying over a third of his wages. If he signs for Roma they will have to pay all of his wages. Which would make him their highest earner by some distance.

Roma paying two thirds of his wages I think currently makes him their joint highest earner.

This is the problem, our players are paid significantly more than they are worth, which means offloading them is difficult.

At the end of the what difference does it make if if get an extra 1-2m on all of the players we offload?

Pushing Everton for an extra couple of million for Rojo last summer meant we got nothing for him, he has contributed nothing to the first team and he has cost us 7-8m in wages.

Surely 12m plus a saving of 7-8m in wages would have been a better outcome. As Ed002 says it's just amateur hour on repeat.


24.) 03 Aug 2020
03 Aug 2020 11:38:34
Maybe roma don't rate his performances as highly as you csm.


25.) 03 Aug 2020
03 Aug 2020 14:45:28
Ken smalling has been one of their best players according to most of their fans, he is making most serie a team of the year lists, if they don't rate him, that's on them. We should definitely be able to find an english midtable club willing to sign him given his performances in serie a.

Shappy got any source for the highest wage claim?


26.) 03 Aug 2020
03 Aug 2020 15:32:05
Csm i'm sure we will see a deluge of offers flying in for him. 😂😂😂.


27.) 03 Aug 2020
03 Aug 2020 15:38:55
Csm. If he is one of the best defenders in seria a last season and is available for 15m lots of offers will flood in from all over europe.
Id suggest the best defenders in any top league would be snapped up by a host of clubs if available for 15m.
But we can't muster an offer of over 12m for what you determine one of the top defenders in seria A from tje lub he was on loan with.
Average joe. Will go for an average fee. But the problem is he is not on average wages.


28.) 03 Aug 2020
03 Aug 2020 21:38:39
He will be 31 soon so won't go for a lot of cash .