11 Jun 2020 18:42:35
I appreciate most will be sick to death of talking about Pogba so I wanted to discuss our French World Cup Winning midfielder Paul Labile MacBeth instead.

From what Ed002 tells us we know MacBeth wants to leave yet we are holding him to his contract. Of which I believe we have one more year and option to extend for a further year.

Do you think:
A - Macbeth stays
B - Macbeth goes
C - beyond caring
D - all future utterance of the word MacBeth should be banned

Forgive me. I'm likely not working for 6 months so got to lot of time on my hands.

Personally I think he stays one more season. More by default than anything. The a move to Real next season.

1.) 11 Jun 2020
11 Jun 2020 19:37:20
I think ed has said we can't use extensions to profiteer so the club gains nothing but a having a silky player who's doesn't want to be there for another year. sell him now get as much as you can plus a player invest in Saul and a havertz, van de beek, Maddison or grealish (personally I'd rather not get grealish)

2.) 11 Jun 2020
11 Jun 2020 19:59:44
Pogba out and an established world class talent like Saul in would be ideal. Think most of us would drive Pogba to the airport ourselves for that one. Havertz and Van De Beek both excellent prospects.

Curious to see where Maddison ends up. Jury seems to be out for many on Grealish too though clearly we look to be in for him.

Regardless what happens I hope we conclude all our transfer business as soon as we can. Though I’ve no doubt we won’t.

3.) 11 Jun 2020
11 Jun 2020 20:30:23
He will stay.

4.) 11 Jun 2020
11 Jun 2020 23:09:12
I think he will stay. I suspect he would like the chance to play with Bruno, and I bet Ole would love to have them both in the lineup, so I can’t imagine he’d be keen to let Pogba go. I suspect it does mean United will only make a couple of signings this summer. If it could be top quality defensive midfielder and left footed winger that would be ideal.

5.) 11 Jun 2020
11 Jun 2020 23:43:41
If he's happy to stay and not just because we won't let him go I would a million percent keep him. He tops almost every meaningfull stat on a regular basis since he has been at the club. The thought of a front 6 of pogba bruno rashford martial and hopefully sancho would be great to watch.

6.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 04:43:32
I actually think it's getting increasingly difficult for the Club to move forward whilst Pogba remains at the Club.

He dominates more discussion and occupies more column inches than all our players combined.

I love Pogba, I think he has the talent and skill to become not only the best midfielder but the best player in the world but it's slowly starting to dawn on me that maybe I'm in love with Pogba the enigma rather than Pogba the player.

Whilst results might not accurately reflect it just yet I actually think the team has made great strides forward whilst he's been out injured especially since Fernandes arrived. We have new leaders like Maguire, Mctominay, Rashford and even Fernandes yet I still get the feeling Pogba dominates that dressing room.

I think Pogba has always played as an individual rather than as part of the team. For nearly 4 years the discussions has always been how can the team get the best out of Pogba rather than what Pogba can do for the team. This has to stop.

I think the next few games will probably tell us everything we need to know. I can only see Pogba getting back into the team in a deeper role, where he will be tasked with getting on the ball, dictating play and making forward passes for into the likes of Rashford, Martial and Fernandes. For this to be successful he'll have to play a more disciplined role, respect his defensive duties and let other players take more responsibility for creating chances in the final third. I've heard rumours that he might even be used as a No10 but if that happens it will be just another example of the team trying to accommodate and get the best out of Pogba rather than the other way around and possibly at the expense of other players.

I want to see a more humble, hardworking and disciplined Pogba otherwise I think the Club are flogging a dead horse and he should be allowed to leave even at a substantial loss if we are really serious about re building and getting back to being the best with everyone pulling in the same direction.

7.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 08:54:05
Pogba is 27 and you still think he has all to be the best midfielder? Lol.

8.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 10:24:17
Great post DLIB and agree. I think Pogba here for another season by default. Juve wage cap rules them out leaving realistically Real and Barcelona who will have funds committed for Summer 2020 transfer window. So he stays by default.

Im not sure on his position though. Possibly he’s seen now as more of a No.10 rather than a deeper role. Less tracking back etc but his attacking flair gets to shine.

Fernandes looks a great buy already albeit from a small number of games. Fundamentally though were no longer reliant on Pogba as much. Perhaps that changes the dressing room dynamics too.

Wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a ‘pre Madrid’ Ronaldo agreement being worked up behind closed doors. He goes to them next season hopefully following a great season and we get an appropriate fee for him when he does. I am mindful that at 27 next summer represents the traditional last club move.

{Ed002's Note - Don't rule out Juventus.}

9.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 10:51:55
He does, it's just a case of waiting for the penny to drop. Whether it ever does is the more prominent question.

I'm not sure it will. Ultimately my view is that is a player doesn't want to be here then he should be a allowed to leave. What I wonder is what is the difference in the thinking of the club between the situation with Di Maria and Pogba.

Both wanted out, but the club allowed one to leave after a year at a loss. But won't allow Pogba to leave after 4-5 years.

10.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 11:18:16
I reckon if we can manage to fit him and Bruno in the same side for the rest of this season and they click and we get CL next season then he will stay and sign a new contract. Otherwise I have a gut feeling he will go to psg, I know that juve and r. Madrid are keen but I can't see them paying him the wages he desires.

11.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 12:38:48
Thanks Ed002. Think Juve would bend their salary cap rule for Pogba as they’ve done for Ronaldo? Or given his sponsorship potential could they just be more creative around salaries are capped but image rights payments aren’t?

{Ed002's Note - You need to forget the money side of things - that is not their issue in respect of Pogba.}

12.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 12:43:00
Don’t see Pogba going to PSG. It’s fast becoming the team great players go to to win an easy league and do nothing in Champions League. Neymar went there to get out of Messi’s shadow and become a Ballon D’or winner. Bet he seriously regrets that. Mbappe too must move to a stronger league to progress.

13.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 13:58:15
Clearly there's an agenda against pogba like it was said earlier wether he plays or not people want to talk about him wether its souness on sky or people on the radio or his own fans on places like this he doesn't even have to play or say anything but people are going to hate on him.

14.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 14:18:30
mnk397, I would say Souness has an agenda. I'm not sure United fans do. I can remember when we signed him everyone was happy that we signed a great player with huge potential.

Here we are four year later still waiting for him to step up. He has been very good in spells, but has lacked effort and defensive work rate. He also wants to leave, while some feel he undermined Jose.

Several fans are just disillusioned with him, he will never be a world class player for us while he doesn't want to be here. If the club hadn't been so concerned with his commercial viability then Pogba would have left last summer.

Pogba is a potentially great player who doesn't want to be a Manchester United player. The club needs to draw a line under this and grant him his wish to leave and move on.

15.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 14:26:08
He's not tried a leg since we signed him.

16.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 15:56:33
You tell me it's not an agenda but he has the most goal contributions assists and goals almost every season at utd yet that's not good enough. Let's say its not as many as you would like but the same level of hate and yes that's what I will call it is not bestowed on the rest of the squad who are all below him in comparison. Shappy you say he lacks defensive work rate yet he's the one scoring and assisting as well why are you expecting him to do both things?

Hes asked to defend and have stats like kante and ndidi but at the same time have the same stats that sterling or kdb have in attack he simply can't win. You tell me he's not trying and still topping these charts so what are the rest of the team doing? And why is there not the same energy for them?

He never chose to cost 90m but the club knew that for that money they get all the commercial benefits of pogba aswell which I'm sure people will will underestimate but it matters to the club.

He is never in the papers for punching someone in a night club or even eating burgers in ibiza every chance he gets. He likes to have a dance and have fun so what it harms no one. He is injured goes to his brother's wedding has a dance and it's a big issue for everyone like a few dance moves and playing in the premier league is the same thing.

I do have to mention degea trying to leave and the club stopping him and the fans in no way had the same behaviour towards him. Ronaldo said he was being treated as a slave at utd and the fans still sing his name to this day. There is an agenda against Pogba wether anyone admits it or not.

17.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 16:32:45
Mnk397
Good point.

18.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 17:57:00
Pogba is like Nani shows up 1 in 8 games and thts not good enough. No one cares what he does outside the pitch but he needs to show more on th3 pitch. He definitely isn't worth the salary he is paid based on his on the pitch performances.

19.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 18:22:22
Shows up 1 in 8 games where are you getting this stuff from how is he getting goals and assists and not showing up?

Why are you not talking about all these players who are supposedly showing up and doing nothing because he is ahead of them all.

I can promise you utd get a plenty of commercial benefits of having pogba aswell as onfield stuff so him getting paid for being the face of the biggest club in the country is absolutely justified. Yet again I don't see you bringing up the wages of all the other players at utd who are vastly overpaid and have less yo show for it on and off the pitch.

20.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 19:28:10
Mnk which year was he top scorer in last 4 years?
Its only a good point if its true.

21.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 19:39:54
Mnk i'm not sure there is an agenda.
If people don't like him or if they don't enjoy him that doesn't mean there is an agenda it means they don't like him and are not shy in saying so.
Im adamant that if he wants to leave he should be let go. If he wants to stay then that's fine too.
He has not endeared himself to many but that's ok he doesn't have to. But that does not mean there is an agenda against him it means he does not appeal to many for a variety of reasons i can understand why people don't like him or they don't like the way he portrays himself.
Fine football player i don't even think that's up for debate. Souness had even acknowledged his talent.
Suarez has talent, ramos has talent, even souness had talent but they are not liked or admired by the majority of football fans even by many of those that support who they play for.
People don't often admire people that show what they percieve to be disrespect to the club.
Its not an agenda people have plenty of good reason to dislike him or his attitude.
I think pogba confess across as a complete Ahole and I've no agenda against him.

22.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 20:15:40
Ken I said goal contributions that's a combination of goals and assists. You said there is no agenda and people just don't like him for a variety of reasons doesn't seem to be footballing reasons either as he has been easily the best player at the club so it must be personal as to why he is not liked and treated differently to every other united player but you can tell me it's not an agenda.

Barring Degea before this season every Utd player wasnt doing enough or simply wasnt good enough. But there are not the same posts on here about them or the press coverage to anywhere near the same level.

The manager constantly comes out saying he's works hard trains well is no trouble the players themselves come out and say he's great yet the media and his own fans want to portray him as the trouble maker.

23.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 20:49:03
Mnk
Again a good point and interesting people ignored your comments about de gea and ronaldo and, well the rest of your post to be honest .

24.) 12 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 22:09:15
People dislike players for lots of reasons.
Ddg and ronaldo have endeared themselves to supporters as did rooney and keane and many others who have not covered themselves in glory when it comes to contentious off field issues comments or behaviour.
They are all mite popular than Pogba they are all hero's in many eyes as well as villains at times. But over their tenure as players more people respect them than dont. That's not the same for pogba for me there is no mystery in why that is. Some players are loved no matter what they do some aren't. Pogba isn't. I can see why maybe you can't see why people don't like him.

25.) 13 Jun 2020
12 Jun 2020 23:53:30
Explain it to me please because unless you know him personally and he himself doesn't say much the only thing you see of him in the media is him dancing and having fun with his friends his brothers or his team mates or you may see him promoting some sponsor or even see pics of him on pilgrimage in mecca you even see him doing various charity work not doing nothing sorded or illegal or purposely going out to injure players or handing transfer requests in before the manchester derby ala keane and Rooney who you mentioned.

You said he comes across as an ahole to you what part of all that has you deciding this player who is OUR homegrown world cup winner is not worth respecting like the others and should be treated differently.

The fact that you think he is an ahole and nobody on this forum even bothered to say why would you call him out like that shows there is a wider agenda against the lad.

26.) 14 Jun 2020
14 Jun 2020 08:19:16
Wonder what else Keane, Rooney and Ronaldo have in common that Pogba doesn't?

27.) 14 Jun 2020
14 Jun 2020 12:24:08
Bang on so72.
But its a personal opinion mnk is entitled to his but not entitled to call other people's opinion a fixed agenda imo. maybe he thinks its an agenda because it doesn't concur with his opinion when if fact its lots of people can see traits in pogba that don't sit well with them.
Comes across as an a-hole to me.
Of course i don't k kniw him personally and of course there are thousands that don't agree with me but i wouldn't expect everybody to agree with me.

28.) 14 Jun 2020
14 Jun 2020 13:31:33
So I'm not entitled to say there is an agenda but you are entitled to refer to him as an ahole ok sounds about right.

Ken you never answered the question what are these traits that make him so much worse then the other players mentioned.

Yes so72 I agree with you to there is one big difference between pogba and the players you mentioned. Now you can interpret that how ever you seem fit.

29.) 14 Jun 2020
14 Jun 2020 15:21:40
Its my opinion mnk. My interpretation of his persona is that he has traits i admire and like but its well outweighed by things i don't like about how he comes across to me.
I can see why souness and keane would be frustrated by him as there are so many parts of his personality and the way he plays that would be polar opposites to their own.
I feel the same about martial in many ways. He just doesn't appeal to me in any way.
I admire their abilities and skills but i don't like their persona.
In reality that's a totally subjective and personal thing. i'm sure they have plenty of people who love them and I'm sure they are not bad people. Their personalities as i percieve them are not the sort i gravitate towards.
I grew up watching snooker as a kid in 70s and 80s. Never liked steve Davis came across as an a-hole to me or thorburn. But i loved higgins white and then o Sullivan because they appealed to me.
Pogba comes across to me as totally self indulgent on the pitch and that's an attribute i despise. It will override and negate 10 good attributes in my opinion. He won't come across that way to everybody MNK. I understand that. That's why i keep telling you its my opinion. My interpretation of his persona. Did you ever not get on with somebody? There are people i'm sure that come across that way to you whether they be an actor a colleague a neighbour or sportsman but not everybody will agree with your perception i'm sure.

30.) 14 Jun 2020
14 Jun 2020 15:54:27
You are entitled to your opinion Ken my issue is the double standards you show towards him on one hand you say Ronaldo is endearing then say pogba is hated because he's self indulgent and that's something you hate. I don't know where to begin with that.

You souness keane good luck to you guys.

31.) 14 Jun 2020
14 Jun 2020 16:20:34
Mnk where or when did i say pogba was hated?
I don't see Ronaldo as self indulgent. I see one of the most dedicated players in my lifetime i see a player that has made the very most iut of his good given talent. I see a player who never stops trying who will do whatever it takes to win. I see a player with passion and a player i'd like to have in my dressing room. I don't see that in pogba at all. I see a player that flits in and out of games i see more style than substance. Not everybody sees what i see. You think ronaldo is self indulgent and i can understand why you may have that opinion i just don't agree with it. But i respectfully disagree and i'm sure you don't have an agenda against ronaldo just because you think he is self indulgent.

32.) 14 Jun 2020
14 Jun 2020 16:21:25
Strange to judge a person solely on watching him play football on TV?

Pogba seems to be a very popular person among people who actually know him.
Keane was in my eyes a legend on the pitch from all accounts a very divisive character off it .

pogba is a big name, so is treated differently than a lot of other players by media and fans .
Look at the abuse rooney got on here.
If pogba finds some consistent form the same fans who can't stand him will suddenly be fully behind him. Because that's what the real issue is.

33.) 14 Jun 2020
14 Jun 2020 16:48:47
Who is judging him?
I have said i don't know him. I have said i'm sure he is a good person I have said its my perception and how his persona comes across to me on the pitch. I would have thought the best way to form an opinion of that would be to watch him play and for me that will be on the tv more often than not.
Im not judging him, its my opinion formed from watching him play.
As you say keane takes a lot of stick as he is a very decisive character. Pogba to me is someone i can't relate to very well at all.
Martial the same. If he scored a hat trick every week it would endear me to his ability but not his persona.
Some people suit my eye more than others. Some people appeal to me more than others. That's the ssme for everybody.
Id rather have 10 keanes than 10 pogbas. In fact i'd rather have 1 keane than 10 pogbas.

34.) 14 Jun 2020
14 Jun 2020 17:09:00
Ken so you don't see ronaldo not celebrating with his players from time to time or you don't see him throwing his arms in the air at his own players because they didn't pass to him instead of someone else you never saw him not wanting to track back fair enough. For the record to me ronaldo is behind sir Bobby as the best player we ever had.

Jred what your saying is true however you ask for consistency but the players around him are even more inconsistent.

35.) 14 Jun 2020
14 Jun 2020 17:31:26
Think you might have me wrong Ken, I agree with mnk.

Pogba gets extra-criticism from the press because he is a successful, young, black muslim. Has he lived up to his pricetag? No. Has he been good enough? Debatable.

What isn't up for debate is that Pogba is a far better pro than most of his predecessors. There are players like Jack Grealish putting people's lives at risk who get nothing compared to what Pogba gets for dancing with his Mum and dabbing.

I am not accusing any individual of being racist, far from it. Instead, all of us shape our opinions of Pogba (and others) from what we read and see in the press and online. The sources we get that information is bigoted and, whether we want to hold our hands up to it or not, that colours our view of him.

36.) 14 Jun 2020
14 Jun 2020 17:38:32
Respect to you so72 you said and went where I was hesitant in going.

37.) 14 Jun 2020
14 Jun 2020 18:18:35
All of those things you listed never entered my head and never do when i look or talk to, or about any individual so72.
I am only talking about the player on the pitch not about any written or press reports most of which are made up click bait. What i see with my own eyes.
He is not a player i'd want as a team mate based on what i can see. I don't think i would trust him as a team mate.
Mnk I've no issue with any player throwing his arms in disgust at a team mate or on how they celebrate a goal or giving a team mate a lashing for poor play. loved keane for it and big pete. Henderson does it at Liverpool. It maintains high standards. No harm in throwing the odd tantrum or having the odd row. Lots of my fav players have done that over the years.
Robson is my fav ever player. I even got to play with him twice (he gave my son his boots after the last match we played ray Wilkins did too) but he was not a model pro by any means.
Pogba is a very good player he has done pretty well for United but i wouldn't be a big admirer of him. It is ok not to be a fan of all the players that represent the club. Its what they do collectively that i'm a fan of.

38.) 14 Jun 2020
14 Jun 2020 18:41:05
The discussing was if there was an agenda, I think there is and there are some very good points made above .
The disscussing about pogba as a player is just moving the goal post, saying someone is a a hole is nothing to do with him as a player but as an individual .
So72 sums it up very well .

39.) 14 Jun 2020
14 Jun 2020 19:17:50
To those who think that way maybe.

40.) 14 Jun 2020
14 Jun 2020 21:17:45
Biggest difference between Pogba, Ronaldo/ DOG is that those players left everything on the pitch for United and earned every penny. You cannot say the same for Pogba. It's not an agenda to say that he holds onto the ball to long. It's not an agenda to watch him jog back after giving the ball away. He cost 80 million. We are well within our rights to expect certain things from him and the minimum I expect is maximum effort, 100% of the time. People are a lot more forgiving if you work your balls off. The guy has all the talent in the world and has been given the biggest stage to show it and he can't be arsed sometimes. He should be our captain by now. Yet we all know he doesn't want to be here at the moment. Don't get me wrong, if he stays and it all clicks and he becomes the player we all know he can be, my opinion will change. Right now, he has done nowhere near enough to earn the crazy money he collects and his performances has been mostly 7/ 10s on average. I think Neville said years ago that if you need motivating to play for Manchester United then you shouldn't be here. That applies to Pogba more than most.

41.) 14 Jun 2020
14 Jun 2020 23:00:49
The problem isn't you saying that he holds on to the ball for long and things like that that's fine if that's how you feel. But he has easily contributed more to the team then the players around him in goals and assists which is what the games about unlike those who like to run around a lot and that's about it.

The issue is them players are not talked about every week even when they don't play he's singled out ALL the time by the media and his own fans.

He never chose his price tag the club knew full well when you buy a pogba you get him and all his commercial benefits which is why he gets paid alot. However he does not get paid disproportionately compared to all the other players on the team who do not contribute on and off the field to utd but tou bring up his wages and not the other players wages.

42.) 15 Jun 2020
14 Jun 2020 23:54:39
He signed the contract didn't He? By signing it, you know what is expected of you. You know how much the deal is worth and you know your actions will be watched closer than others. that's part of the deal of being a highly paid footballer He knows what is expected of a United player better than most due to his first stint at the club.

The reason he gets pointed out is because he hasn't given it his all. You can't honestly say that he has given his all in every game? Yes he creates goals and scores but therein lies the frustration. He is well capable of performing it on a more consistent basis but he doesn't. For 80 mill you expect a player to turn up every game. Not when he feels like it. There is a hell of a player in there but his heart is not in it and I don't see why we should keep a player who is taking a massive wage out of the club.

43.) 15 Jun 2020
15 Jun 2020 01:01:23
The whole utd squad is overpaid and almost all of our buys are overpriced why are you talking about pogbas wages and price and want to look at him closer than everyone else even when he's not playing because that's the point of signaling him out. Whilst not pointing out the other players wages who offer very little?

To your question I will happily take any player who wins me games through his goals and assists rather than someone whose a passion merchant and offers me little else.

You say he hasn't given it his all and that bothers you more than the players who I guess would have given it their all and still can't reach his levels of contribution surely the bigger issue then is the lack of good players around him and getting them out before we get out the guy who is actually doing something.

44.) 15 Jun 2020
15 Jun 2020 12:50:45
Ken, we all form our opinions of strangers (which Pogba is) from what we see, read and hear through other people's lenses. We then, unconsciously or otherwise, let their bias and bigotry affect our views. If we are going to move on as a society we need to admit to ourselves that views on players like Pogba and individuals in society are often bigoted.

Hence why we get the 'immature' drunk drivers like Grealish vs the 'flashy' dabbers like Pogba.

45.) 15 Jun 2020
15 Jun 2020 19:47:45
So72.
I respect your view but i don't agree that a lot of what's written is bigoted or necessarily bias.