24 Sep 2020 10:21:30
I think if we want to challenge for the title, to be of the level City and Liverpool are, we would need to get rid of 14, maybe 16 players.

De Gea, Romero, Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly, Jones, Smalling, Rojo, Fred, Perreira, Lingard, James and Mata all need to be moved on. On of these are not good enough, or no longer good enough to be in a title challenging side. It would be possible to add Matic and Pogba to that list, but I do feel Matic is still good enough to play a role and with Pogba, it's more a case of making sure his head is in the right place, if it isn't he has to be moved on to.

With that output, there would be the need for up to 9 new players. Three upgrades at CB. A LB who will challenge and offer something different to Luke Shaw. Two CMs, one DM and a replacement for Fred, potentially a third to replace Pogba. There needs a RW and a back-up LW, to offer cover for and put pressure on Rashford. There would also be the need for a back-up RW or CF depending on where Greenwood should be playing.

The problem is, this is impossible, so there's no hope to challenge any time soon. Adding a CB, LB and a RW would provide more structure, but we'd still be way of the mark.

Adding to this, is the fact that many other players are still unproven and have question marks over whether they will be consistent enough in the near future (Fosu-Mensah, Tuanzebe, McTominay, Rashford, AWB, for example) .

It's a bleak situation, but it is what it is.

1.) 24 Sep 2020
24 Sep 2020 10:35:45
How on earth did we end up with Rojo.

2.) 24 Sep 2020
24 Sep 2020 10:45:23
I swear the list of players we need to get rid of increases by a name or two every time we lose a game.

Of the players you've listed I would say Lindelof, Maguire, Fred and James don't need to be sold. Are they good enough to be first choice? Maybe maybe not. But they are all excellent squad players. While improvements on them would be good, they aren't a necessity currently.

De Gea is still good enough, but he is declining and on a long term big money deal. If we can move him on it might be prudent.

Dalot and Bailly have enough talent, but they struggle with injuries.

Smalling, Lingard and Mata offer experience, while maybe not good enough to be first choice they do offer something. Long term they need replacing, but I would expect others to leave before them in an ideal world.

Romero is too good to be third choice and should be allowed to find a club where he can play regularly.

That leaves Rojo, Jones and Andreas Pereira. None of which are good enough and should in theory be the first three out the door.

Fosu-Mensah is an interesting one. I think he could be decent squad coverage for RB, RCB and CB. A flexible player he can do a solid job in most roles. Personally I think he would play best now as a RCB in a back three. However, we don't play that system that often and even if we did Lindelof, Bailly, Tuanzebe, Mengi and maybe even AWB might be preferred in that role.

I used to think TFM would make a good CDM, yet he has never been played in that role at senior level. So I think that opportunity has passed now for him.

I might be tempted to sell Bailly (due to his lack of fitness) and maybe loan Tuanzebe out for a season to get a year of playing regularly under his belt. Then keep TFM as he has a year left on his deal and see how he does in a back up role.

3.) 24 Sep 2020
24 Sep 2020 10:54:46
Thing is, look at Chelsea, they were around our level last season, Lampard has added major improvements, yet they will still be of the mark.

Problem is Maguire and Lindelof would be viable as cover, but they probably wouldn't be happy being such, which could I turn cause problems. I don't dislike all the players I listed, I just don't think they are good enough to be in a title challenging squad.

De Gea is still good, but I feel he needs a new challenge, and Henderson looks solid and ready. Pereira seems good enough to act as second choice.

Fosu-Mensah I feel deserves a season to show he is good enough for a place in the squad. It feels like he spent most of last season build cup fitness, and be has shown glimpses of talent when played after lockdown, he certainly offers more going forward than AWB and Williams, bit is suspect defensive. He was regarded as one of the best youhths in Europe for a time, so there must be some talent there. It would be nice to see him played as a DM.

4.) 24 Sep 2020
24 Sep 2020 11:37:40
It is not necessary to shift all the players out, some will need to go but very important thing is adding some good players in the positions the squad is weak. I believe decent additions would improve overall qualities of team, as long as players are well coached. 😁😃.

5.) 24 Sep 2020
24 Sep 2020 11:53:22
LLV your a nut job . We won't even get the 3 we need in the time remaining and your saying 16 need shifting . Not a chance 😷😷.

6.) 24 Sep 2020
24 Sep 2020 12:09:23
Kenedyandy, yeah, such additions would improve the team, but not to the level that they would be challenging for the title any time soon.

7.) 24 Sep 2020
24 Sep 2020 12:08:22
Hence why I said it is impossible, and expectations like finishing in the top 3 are sort of unrealistic considering. I honestly think that if a manager like Kloop or Guardiola were to take over, that would be what they'd expect over a few transfer windows. But looking at that list, most would only be first team players in mid-table sides, or maybe Arsenal for the defenders as they seem to like bad defenders as much as we do.

8.) 24 Sep 2020
24 Sep 2020 12:15:18
We can never know LLV.
Some players become the catalyst and get the best out of other players.

Bruno brought out the best out of our attackers.

Similarly if we sign a top defender with pace and good reading, it will improve our backline.

Sometimes 2 or 3 players will have a huge impact on rest of the team.

9.) 24 Sep 2020
24 Sep 2020 12:16:20
Harry Maguire cost £80m, currently the most expensive defender in the history of association football and people are talking about him being cover or a back up.

The bar for him is well and truly on the floor, maybe even underground at this point.

10.) 24 Sep 2020
24 Sep 2020 12:27:58
LLV, the saying goes that Rome wasn't built in a day. I remember when teams like Chelsea, PSG and City came into money. They spent like it was going out of fashion and had a huge turn over in playing staff in a very short period of time.

What that meant for all of them was that it still took a couple of seasons for the team to settle, when 8 or 9 of your starting 11 were playing in different teams last season it can be hard for them to create some on field chemistry and play like a team.

There is no need to try and sell 16 player and buy 10 in one window. Firstly, it would be practically impossible to work on 26 deals in one window. Secondly and for me most importantly we have a great group of young players in our academy, players like Garner and Mengi who have a real shot of becoming first choice players in a couple of seasons.

Which is why squad evolution is a far better approach than squad revolution. Slowly shift out 3 to 5 players a year, while bringing in 3 or 4. Loan out the kids and see how they do and maybe they can replace a squad player next summer, get a run in the team next season and maybe challenge for a regular place in the 2022/ 23 season.

Personally I would look to move on Romero, Bailly, Rojo, Andreas Pereira and Dalot.

Loan out Tuanzebe, Laird, Garner, Levitt, Chong and James.

Look to sign a LB and a RW to go with DvdB.

Next summer I'd look to move on Smalling, DDG (depending on how Henderson does), Jones, , Mata, Lingard, Grant and probably Pogba unless he signs a long term deal (which is unlikely) .

While looking to sign a CB, a CDM (depending on how Matic, Fred, McTominay and Garner are doing) and a goalkeeper to keep Henderson on his toes.

Lets say this summer we sign DvdB, Alex Telles and Ismaila Sarr. Then next summer we sign Upmanecano and Mike Maignan.

We would have a squad at the start of next season that looks like this:

GK: Henderson, Maignan, Joel Pereira
FB: AWB, Williams, Shaw, Alex Telles, Laird
CB: Maguire, Upmanecano, Lindelof, Tuanzebe, Mengi, TFM
CDM: Matic, Garner
CM: Fred, McTominay, Levitt
CAM: Bruno, DvdB, Mejbri
FW: Sarr, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, James, Chong

If our younger players step up then we have an excellent squad, only really Matic that might need replacing. While we might need another forward depending on how Chong and James progress.

This is why we need a DoF, someone who can place these sort of longer term plans into action.

11.) 24 Sep 2020
24 Sep 2020 12:27:58
LLV, the saying goes that Rome wasn't built in a day. I remember when teams like Chelsea, PSG and City came into money. They spent like it was going out of fashion and had a huge turn over in playing staff in a very short period of time.

What that meant for all of them was that it still took a couple of seasons for the team to settle, when 8 or 9 of your starting 11 were playing in different teams last season it can be hard for them to create some on field chemistry and play like a team.

There is no need to try and sell 16 player and buy 10 in one window. Firstly, it would be practically impossible to work on 26 deals in one window. Secondly and for me most importantly we have a great group of young players in our academy, players like Garner and Mengi who have a real shot of becoming first choice players in a couple of seasons.

Which is why squad evolution is a far better approach than squad revolution. Slowly shift out 3 to 5 players a year, while bringing in 3 or 4. Loan out the kids and see how they do and maybe they can replace a squad player next summer, get a run in the team next season and maybe challenge for a regular place in the 2022/ 23 season.

Personally I would look to move on Romero, Bailly, Rojo, Andreas Pereira and Dalot.

Loan out Tuanzebe, Laird, Garner, Levitt, Chong and James.

Look to sign a LB and a RW to go with DvdB.

Next summer I'd look to move on Smalling, DDG (depending on how Henderson does), Jones, , Mata, Lingard, Grant and probably Pogba unless he signs a long term deal (which is unlikely) .

While looking to sign a CB, a CDM (depending on how Matic, Fred, McTominay and Garner are doing) and a goalkeeper to keep Henderson on his toes.

Lets say this summer we sign DvdB, Alex Telles and Ismaila Sarr. Then next summer we sign Upmanecano and Mike Maignan.

We would have a squad at the start of next season that looks like this:

GK: Henderson, Maignan, Joel Pereira
FB: AWB, Williams, Shaw, Alex Telles, Laird
CB: Maguire, Upmanecano, Lindelof, Tuanzebe, Mengi, TFM
CDM: Matic, Garner
CM: Fred, McTominay, Levitt
CAM: Bruno, DvdB, Mejbri
FW: Sarr, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, James, Chong

If our younger players step up then we have an excellent squad, only really Matic that might need replacing. While we might need another forward depending on how Chong and James progress.

This is why we need a DoF, someone who can place these sort of longer term plans into action.

12.) 24 Sep 2020
24 Sep 2020 12:44:18
So this argument is that to win we basically need to sell our squad - and let’s buy Man citys or Liverpool’s? While at it, get their board and manager as well.

Fortunately football is not played on paper. We surely need a couple of world class players in (now) but moving 14 on and buying a dozen is exaggeration for now. Over the cycle of a few years that can happen while we can still be competitive during that cycle.

13.) 24 Sep 2020
24 Sep 2020 14:12:52
Shappy, I never suggested it could be done in one transfer window (I actually stated the opposite several times), and as you say, you could get better players and they may not gel. But those players would not make the Liverpool or City squads, a couple maybe as cover, but nothing more.

My point is that people are unrealistic as to expectations when looking at this squad. People suggest a good manager gets the best out of his players, what if this is the best these players are capable of? Solskjaer has actually improved Martial, he's making better runs, sticking around the box more and there's a big improvement. Rashford had improved tenfold before his injury. Shaw is better, and is actually now a vital part of the team, in the sense that when he is absent or injured, the team performs worse, his injury record is still worrying though (against Palace, Shaw crossed over to right back, closed down Zaha, tackled and dispossessed him and played a decent pass forward, how many other players can do that in the team? I would suggest only Bruno) . And while his performances are still left to be desired, Fred is better than he was.

We'll be lucky at this stage to finish 4th, not because of the manager, but because the squad is on par with the likes of Arsenal and Everton (a small minority of very good players, surrounded by an average squad) . Chelsea have arguably moved a level above us, and if Spurs get their new players settled, they may have too) .

Chelsea have signed 7 players this summer, all arguably improve the squad. Romano has suggested that they will move for Rice too if they manage to shift a couple of players, but time is tight in that aspect. I'm suggesting United need 9 new players, which isn't that different, our problem is getting rid of the 13 or 15 that would need to leave to free up the space for those improvements.

14.) 24 Sep 2020
24 Sep 2020 14:18:21
FootballGoesInCircles, no we do not need City or Liverpool's squad, but we should be looking at what happened when Pep and Kloop took over and how they succeeded, and attempt to emulate, in our own way. Chelsea seem to be doing something similar with Lampard, why aren't we?

15.) 24 Sep 2020
24 Sep 2020 16:18:03
We might as well merge with City and have done with it.
We are now officially the tight wads of the Premier League.