03 Nov 2020 12:41:59
Ken asked about potential Ole replacements after the Arsenal defeat, so I thought I might give my view on the whole situation and where I think the club needs to look moving forward.

Looking at how the wind is blowing I would be surprised if Pochettino wasn't our manager by Christmas. He is available, and he is the easy choice for an administration that ultimately doesn't understand enough about football.

Is he the right choice? Personally, for me no, he as a good style of play, but chokes the moment he gets anywhere near a trophy. While his development of young players extends to giving them game time, but they seem to stagnate and not develop as players after a year or so.

He seems too concerned with the physical aspects of the game, hard work, pacy strong players and he seems to work too much on that to the detriment of technical skill and intelligent play. When given more say over transfers at Spurs the quality of the signings they made dropped, with too much focus on the physical attributes of a player over technical ability.

Pochettino could work in a very specific set up, with little say over transfers and a backroom team that balances out his desire for pace and power over intelligence and finesse. We do not have that. Furthermore, we have too many players who have shown a tendency to pick up injuries, his brutal training regimes could be too much for several players.

Which for me suggests that Pochettino isn't the right choice for us. However, like I said the media and a general lack of understanding and planning at the club mean he is the most likely to step in when Ole is fired.

While I don't think Ole is the right man for the job long term, I think sacking him and brining in a replacement at this point in time is very much a case of putting the cart before the horse. Sacking the area manager for an multinational PLC will not change the fortunes of that company.

All of the issues Ole has which are causing him issues will still be in place for the next manager and will hamstring them in much the same way they have Ole, and Jose before him.

We still have a squad filled with potential rather than top level ability. While many might say this is the best side we have had since Sir Alex retired how many would chose a back four of:
DDG, AWB, Lindelof, Maguire and Shaw over DDG, Valencia, Ferdinand, Vidic and Evra.

Who would choose Martial and Rashford over RVP and Rooney?

While midfield options of Matic, Fred, McTominay, Bruno, Pogba and DvdB appear to be a better on paper than Carrick, Fletcher, Fellaini, Anderson and Cleverley. The reality is that Carrick and Fletcher were still at their peaks and had been key players in our last title success.

Pogba while talented has struggled for consistency even in the games he has played well, Fred works hard but just isn't good enough. Matic is past his best and I would argue never as good as Carrick either way. McTominay could be as good as Fletcher was but isn't at that level yet. Donny has potential but hasn't settled yet while only Bruno would start in a midfield three if we made up a dream side of all the options (Carrick, Fletcher and Bruno) .

So, is our squad really currently better than our 2013/ 14 side? Most would choose the 13/ 14 defence over the 20/ 21 version, most would choose RvP and Rooney over Martial and Rashford. Most would pick Carrick and Fletcher as first choice midfielders over everyone bar Bruno from the 20/ 21 options. Highly debateable.

While the issues of a talented squad full of potential rather than current top level ability, along with a unbalanced squad that has too many CB's (9) many of whom aren't good enough, no wingers, and a blend of midfielders who individually are talented but finding the right balance seems difficult.

The issues with the squad need time for players to reach their potential and steady adjustment to have a more synergetic squad. Our current squad is the legacy of chopping and changing managers without a clear structure or vision meaning we have had managers with vastly different tactical outlooks, and they have been given varying degrees of flexibility in transfers both in and out.

This all stems from a lack of leadership and footballing nous from the top. What is our club to the Glazers? What are their aims? How does that translate to the running of the club? While many are quick to point out that the Glazers themselves have invested very little of their own money into the club, they have spent a billion pounds on transfer fees alone in the past 8 years, goodness knows how much on agents fees (Mino reportedly got 28m alone when we signed Pogba), while we have the second highest wage bill in world football. So significant funds have been spent, while many teams have surpassed us on the pitch spending a fraction of what we have.

All of this factors into who the club should look to appoint as their next manager, especially if they look to do so sooner rather than later.

The club is still in a transitional state, we need a shift behind the scenes otherwise we will always be also-rans. Until the club has a clear structure, a division of responsibilities that reflects peoples skill sets and ability, then we cannot look for the stylistically "ideal" manager.

Managers I think could be a great fit from a football style perspective, or at least managers who I would like to see at a club where financially they could bring in players to elevate their style of football.

Managers such as Erik Ten Hag who has a possession-based approach but has his sides constantly looking to turn that possession into goals would be interesting to see at a top club with huge resources. Likewise, managers such as Marco Rose, Jesse Marsch and Julian Nagelsmann all play a high pressing intense style which is fun to watch and reminiscent of Klopp. Giovanni van Bronckhorst could be an interesting option whose football is about technical quality, quick passing and transitions based around possession.

While Marcelo Gallardo might be the biggest risk having never managed in Europa but could provide the biggest reward, a true tactician whose tactical understanding and reading of the game is matched by his desire and ability to get the most out of his players.

Any of these managers with the right set up behind them could flourish and bring the EPL title back home to Old Trafford. Yet the reality is that we don't have that set up. In my mind Ole is the custodian who should be minding the shop, overseeing the transition from an unbalanced team to a more balanced one with the right "characters" in it. While the changes behind the scenes take place.

If we are going to be forced to cut short his tenure, then we need someone else to be that stepping stone. Laurent Blanc could be a good choice, he knows the club and has a better managerial pedigree than Ole.

My choice however would be Ralf Rangnick who I would bring in to manage for a season or two before stepping back into a DoF role then look to bring in someone like Jesse Marsch or Marco Rose who's playing style/ philosophy is similar to Rangnick hopefully making a more smooth transition, similar to how RB Leipzig did with Rangnick before moving to Nagelsmann.


1.) 03 Nov 2020
03 Nov 2020 13:26:44
See what you've done KEN!
Keep it zipped next time 🤣🤣🤣🤣.


2.) 03 Nov 2020
03 Nov 2020 13:58:08
I like the idea of Ten Hag and Overmars as a duo of manager and DoF and see what they can do with money.

I also think they will get the entire club in line playing a certain way. Whilst they are at it they can bring in Bergkamp to work with our youngsters on the fringe of the first team.


3.) 03 Nov 2020
03 Nov 2020 14:18:45
It's an interesting list Shapps.
I do like Marco Rose.
But our decision makers are more likely to appoint Marco Silva than him.


4.) 03 Nov 2020
03 Nov 2020 14:24:59
😂 betty.
Good man shappy.


5.) 03 Nov 2020
03 Nov 2020 14:33:55
I was wondering where you went Shappy, you've been writing that since the arsenal defeat obviously 😂

So are you back to the opinion that Ole should be gotten rid of?


6.) 03 Nov 2020
03 Nov 2020 14:58:39
Shappy

Absolutely NO to Laurent Blanc

You say the Glazers have invested very little of their own money into the club, no they have not invested anything at all. “They” have NOT spent a billion pounds on transfer fees alone in the past 8 years, goodness knows how much on agents fees (Mino reportedly got 28m alone when we signed Pogba), while we have the second highest wage bill in world football. We Manchester United have spent that, the Glazers ZERO.


7.) 03 Nov 2020
03 Nov 2020 15:15:07
Maybe the fact our players would break at some physicality is an indictment on the players not on Poch, the players should be able to take kicks, work hard and run themselves into the ground for gbe cause not get an injury. I also find it harsh to say Poch choked, whod have thought we'd see Spurs in a CL final at all. Poch as United would have a bigger transfer budget and a profile of player higher than at Spurs available to him, so again harsh to say his transfers have been poor. Tbh, way out club is run I doubt Poch would have a say anyway but this is the 1st thing that needs addressing before a new manager is appointed. I like Poch, plays the right way, has the right attitude and I think, if the circumstances was right upstairs, he would do well here.


8.) 03 Nov 2020
03 Nov 2020 15:47:45
Angel, I don't think he should be gotten rid of currently. I think to do so would only be a sideways step, maybe even a backward step depending who comes in.

Red Man you can dislike it all you want, but if I own a company then the money that company makes is potentially my money. If I choose to reinvest it in the company then that is my prerogative, just as it would if I chose to pay myself a big fat dividend.

The Glazers own the club, they own all the money the club makes in theory. They can choose to keep that money within the club and to reinvest it on players, or they could chose to take that money out of the club and in to their pockets. The Glazers don't HAVE to spend a penny on transfers, they choose to. Most likely to maintain the value of their asset.

Just look over at Mike Ashley over at Newcastle. When he was looking to sell he pulled back the spending and ultimately pushed Rafa out.

Like it or not the Glazers own our club, every penny you spend that goes into the clubs bank accounts can potentially be taken out by the Glazers. If it is reinvested in the club that is because the Glazers have chosen to.

So the Glazers have chosen to spend 1bn on transfer over the past 8 years, they have chosen to spend hundreds of millions on agents fees and they have chosen to make Manchester United's wage bill the second highest in world football. No one has made them do it, it wasn't against their will, it was their choice.

Welsh, If it was one final then fair enough, but it was two titles and a league title run in during the season where Leicester won the league. It was Spurs losing their game in hand and not leap frogging Leicester and then capitulating while Leicester themselves faltered that handed Leicester the title that years. Runners up in two finals, losing at a couple of Semi-finals and failing to make the most of an unexpected title challenge, eventually finishing 3rd. In 5 years he won nothing, he has yet to win a thing as a manager, not even a Norwegian league title with a side that had never won the title.


9.) 03 Nov 2020
03 Nov 2020 16:54:47
I think we are all in agreement that Olly has done a great job in steadying the ship, bringing us back much closer to the ethos of the club and how we play. He has started to ship out the deadwood and has brouugh in and through some good young players. He has the ability to set a team up to win some of the big games and has a good record in these.
I think we can also agree that some of his selection and in game decisions leave a lot to be desired and his overall tactical ability is questionable.
So. do we stick or twist. I think the board will stick unless something drastic happens. I think they should twist and I am on the side of Pochatino. yes he is does not have a history of success but then arguably so few do as the same clubs win most things. He overachieved at Spurs in my mind but yes i can agree the Leicester season they should have done better. but then so should the rest of the league.
Bring him in with a DOF whoever that is, its the model he wants and we are craving for.
Alternatively we should look at Den Haag (ideally with Van De Saar) or Santo at wolves.
The old list of Blanc/ Allegri for me have had there chance.


10.) 03 Nov 2020
03 Nov 2020 17:26:45
By his own admission, Ole is 'delighted with our group of players'. Yet they sit in 15th in the Premier League. Therefore I can only deduce he is the problem. Great managers get the best out of average players, yet he can't get a performance out of players who have already been great (we can't deny that Sanchez and Pogba, possibly the highest profile players the club has had post-Fergie, have looked excellent for Arsenal and France/ Juventus previously) .
I know, he's a lovely guy and all. But he should have been the right-hand man alongside a Mourinho, putting his arm round players, motivating. That's what he can do well. The other stuff, adapting to games tactically as they unfold and leading from the sidelines. it's miles out of his reach. He has managed Molde and had an utterly disastrous spell at Cardiff. I'm not suggesting a manager needs to have been at multiple high-profile clubs before they get this role - look at Pep, who had never managed before taking the reigns at Barcelona - and it does seem quite in-vogue at the moment to employ younger former players who 'get the club'. Sadly, enthusiasm and a love of the club are clearly not enough.


11.) 03 Nov 2020
03 Nov 2020 17:48:57
Not sure I agree with you there at all shaps. I'm sick of it at this stage and having any kind of decent coach in there right now is much better than this.

I get your point about long term but realistically it's not going to get any better under the stewardship of our current board so at the very least we should have a very good coach in place to at least ensure the squad we do have is playing to its maximum potential.

I also hope that whoever they appoint will come with a list of demands. Any decent manager will have looked at our current set up and thought 'I don't want to work within that structure'. It may prompt the board to give into certain demands.

For instance I think I recall seeing ee002 say that if Poch were to come, he would need certain assurances. Here's hoping other top managers are saying the same. It might prompt them into making changes.


12.) 03 Nov 2020
03 Nov 2020 19:17:54
Agree angelred.


13.) 03 Nov 2020
03 Nov 2020 19:41:09
Shappy

I would stick to tactics because you know little of business.

The club don't have to spend a penny on transfers, but you will know that business requires investment, the owners will know that. Buying players won’t solely “maintain the value of their asset”.

I don’t like the fact the Glazers own our club, but they have never put a penny into the club, no matter how you spin it.

I seriously can’t see how removing the manager could be a “backwards step” as you put it because I doubt there is another Premier League club would have him and there are many other managers with far better pedigree.


14.) 03 Nov 2020
03 Nov 2020 19:43:37
Good post Angle.


15.) 03 Nov 2020
03 Nov 2020 19:54:56
Maybe we need to look at the coaches and not the manager. They seem to get off pretty lightly, yet there job is to coach, something doesn't seem to be working.

I'd **** off all 3 of phelan, Carrick and mckenna, and get some fresh coaches who can actually coach before sacking ole.

Bring Keane is as a coach, not one of these players would put a sub par performance in knowing they would have to face him afterwards.

He would demand what we all do as fans and that is effort and consistency.


16.) 03 Nov 2020
03 Nov 2020 20:57:39
I think a manager brings in the coaches he wants. If the coaches aren't good enough that's on the manager as well.


17.) 03 Nov 2020
03 Nov 2020 21:01:40
Dannyc, new manager will bring in his own backroom staff.

Stay well clear of Keane, it's a dream. But the reality is, he is a mad man that would pee off nearly all in the dressing room. It would cause incredible tension and a huge headache for any manager.

He's a great pundit, tells it straight but his style is so out of wack. It would end in tears.


18.) 03 Nov 2020
03 Nov 2020 22:58:13
Max Allegri all day.


19.) 04 Nov 2020
04 Nov 2020 06:46:06
Ole and his coaches just look beat on every match day the way they sit comatose from the sidelines. Also, the performance on the pitch shows the coaching set up is nt working.

Forget that stuff about players being frightened of Roy Keane - that's playground nonsense - a young kid on 150k a week doesn't give a toss about Keane or anyone else getting in their face . this is 2020 its more likely to result in that player jumping in his Lambo going home to his mansion and his model girlfriend and saying he won't come back until Keane apologises -who would the club back? . players respond to intelligence, belief in a system, quality team mates, enjoyable training sessions, good player recruitment, cup runs etc etc .


20.) 04 Nov 2020
04 Nov 2020 12:08:59
Angel, I get that train of thought. Part of me will be relieved when Ole is sacked as this whole "when will it" situation is draining.

Yet the idea that the people who hired with Moyes, then LVG, then Jose then Ole would somehow suddenly pick the right manager is clutching at straws a little don't you think?

While we have had managers who are more tactically able than Ole and they have struggled just as much as him.

We want a vision, a style a certain way of playing, yet the reality is we have a mishmash squad. When all players are available we might be able to play a certain style, but the moment 1 or 2 don't play the alternatives are unable to play that way and we either have to change style or the same style to a poorer standard.

I've assessed our squad and considered many different types of set up, and it's difficult to come up with a way that everyone in the squad can play well.

When we look over at Pep or Klopp at City and Liverpool they set their stall out very early. They were given free reign to move on players who didn't suit and bring in players who did. In both cases it took at least 2-3 years of dodgy results. We laughed at Liverpool for the first 2-3 years under Klopp, great going forward but couldn't defend. We said they wouldn't be a success under him. Yet once he was able to bring in VvD and Alisson the team transformed, they suddenly had all the right pieces in place.

United fans at least up until now have been unable to accept losing a single game. The fall out on here every time we even draw highlights this. The United fan base would not have stuck with Klopp for 3 years of inconsistent results. They would have said he wasn't the right man, he relegated Mainz, he hadn't won a title in 6-7 years, he was past it, his style doesn't suit the EPL etc, etc.

I say a new manager could be a step backwards as there are things Ole is doing right. On the whole he is bringing in players with the right attitude, he is moving on players who aren't the right fit either stylistically or mentally. He is giving young players a chance.

A new manager might not play Greenwood, a new manager might fallout with Rashford or Bruno. A new manager might resort to defensive negative football.

When Moyes left we were sure the next manager would do things better.

LvG gives young players a chance, LvG plays good football, LvG would be better.

While he played young players, he also sold players who we maybe should have kept, he signed absolute dross and his football was the worst I have watched not just from United but in the EPL ever.

LvG took us backwards. Under Jose we stagnated. The only manager to have genuinely improved the squad during his tenure is Ole.

So there is a very real possibility that the next manager could take us backwards. Bring in the wrong sort of player, not give the youth a chance, sell players we should keep, and play worse football.

While it might be obvious to us who we should or shouldn't hire, it's also clear that the people making the decisions clearly have absolutely no idea.


21.) 04 Nov 2020
04 Nov 2020 16:43:24
As long as they pick a much better manager shappy, he might not be the right one but he will be a damn sight better.

They can't pick much worse can they? At least Giggs will be out the running now 😂.


22.) 04 Nov 2020
04 Nov 2020 19:52:32
Giggs will be free to become our new manager if he is sacked/ removed from the Wales job.

Ed Woodward loves not having to pay to release a manager from their contact.

They paid to sign Moyes, then got LvG and Jose on frees as they were out of contract. Then chose Ole and a minimum fee (2m) instead of Pochettino (reported 40m from Spurs) .

If Giggs becomes a free agent them that probably bumps him up the list.

Like I said no one could be worse than Moyes, and we got LvG. So don't count on whoever replaces Ole on them being an improvement.


23.) 04 Nov 2020
04 Nov 2020 21:34:15
Didn't have the time to read the whole post shappy but paragraph 4

He seems too concerned with the physical aspects of the game, hard work, pacy strong players and he seems to work too much on that to the detriment of technical skill and intelligent play. When given more say over transfers at Spurs the quality of the signings they made dropped, with too much focus on the physical attributes of a player over technical ability.

Hard work, pacy strong players, err ain't that the Liverpool midfield / team your describing, that's the minimum you should expect from guys earning 3/ 4 mill a year.