13 Dec 2020 14:05:41
My post the other day seemed to go down like a lead balloon, and that's fair enough. Personally, I think there are similarities to the Liverpool squad from 2015 and our current one. Most seemingly don't agree with me, but then this site would actually be a very boring place if we all agreed all the time.

So, I've decided to look at this from a different perspective. Many people still seem to think we have a great squad and are just a few players and a competent manager short of winning the league. I still think we are further away than that, my concern being that we will turn against the next manager if he isn't challenging for titles in his second season. Forcing another change and leaving us stuck in the limbo thinking the only thing stopping us winning the league is a new manager and a good transfer window.

Looking at our squad I decided the best way to evaluate it without comparisons to other teams was to base it on its own merits. So, I decided to try and sort all the players in our squad in to one of three categories.

1. Good enough to be first choice in a title winning team.

2. Potentially good enough for a title winning team, if coached and improved over a period of time.


3. Not good enough to be first choice for a title winning team.

The idea being that we need at least 11 players good enough for a title winning team and several squad players good enough to be first choice ideally. But that's more open to conjecture.

With that said how I judge these players is my opinion and I'm sure those of you who disagree with me will not be shy in telling me, so here goes:

Players good enough to be first choice in a title winning team:
DDG, Pogba and Bruno.
I know a couple of these might be controversial. I still think DDG is good enough for a title winning team, but he is declining and how long he stays good enough remains to be seen. While Pogba is public enemy No.1 atm, but still has the quality to be first choice for a title winning team. Other players I could have included are Matic and Cavani. However, due to their age I decided not to put them in this category as they are on the decline and not players who might be able to be first choice for a title chasing team next season.

Players who are potentially good enough to be first choice in a title winning team:
Henderson, Romero, Tuanzebe, AWB, Dalot, Shaw, Telles, Mengi, Williams, DvdB, McTominay, Pellistri, Garner, Rashford, Greenwood, Matic, Mata, Cavani.

Cavani, Matic and Mata are all in this category for me as it depends entirely on when that title challenge is, if its this season then maybe they might be good enough, next season possibly not, the season after definitely not. Alex Telles could very well jump up to the good enough category, He just hasn't settled yet and proven himself in the EPL to go to the top category yet. All these players if they can develop to their full potential and gain consistency then they are players who in my opinion are good enough to be first choice for a title winning team.

The final category is players who aren't good enough to be first choice for a title winning team:

Grant, Joel Pereira, Lindelof, Bailly, Jones, Maguire, Rojo, TFM, Lingard, Andreas Pereira, Fred, James, Chong, Martial and Ighalo.

Some of these players might be good enough as squad players in a title winning side, players such as Lindelof, Maguire, Fred, James and Martial. But none are or ever will likely be good enough to be first choice.

So, when looking at our squad I see 3 maybe 4 players at most who are good enough for a title winning team. Of which one wants out, one is in decline and one probably hasn't yet proven he is at this level in the EPL. Leaving only Bruno.

Players who might step up include 12 players who are 23 or younger (5 of which are still teenagers), as such will likely need a couple of years yet to step to being top players consistently. Which is what you need for a title challenge. Consistently top performances out of all of your starting 11.

While the rest are squad players at best, potentially 15 players who are nowhere near good enough for a title winning team.

This highlights to me the task the next manager of Manchester United has on his hands. He will have to coach and improve many players over a period a 2-3 years to get them to be good enough. The reality is though that most of those players won't all step up or reach their full potential as many factors influence whether they make it at the top. Such as their mentality, the chances they get, whether they can adapt to the coaches system, etc. Even if 5 of the 15 or so players step up over the next three years that will at best give us 6 maybe 7 players already at the club good enough for a title challenge. Meaning we need at least 4 more likely 5 or 6 top level signings. All of them have to be hits if we are to have 11 players good enough to win the league.

Looking at our squad as it stands, only Bruno is unquestionably good enough to be in the starting 11 of a title winning team. Getting this team to a be title winners will require monumental coaching improving, scouting, great signings and not a insignificant amount of luck.


1.) 13 Dec 2020
13 Dec 2020 14:43:28
Shappy

Perhaps you should dissect our 2013 squad as title winners and see the difference a top manager makes. Or either of Cloughs squads that he made successful. Or Leicester, were they title winning players?

I think your post is both inaccurate and too negative of what we actually have. I am one who thinks that with a top manager and three, maybe four players we will seriously challenge. No amount of deriding our players gives a justification for Ole and you can write as many pages as you want.


2.) 13 Dec 2020
13 Dec 2020 14:54:12
Bloody hell Shappy just give it up pal 😂

You’re like a broken record. And when someone doesn’t agree with you, the posts get longer and longer.

Have a day off. Go for a walk or something.

{Ed047's Note - he could have just said you’re a one man team and end it right there.


3.) 13 Dec 2020
13 Dec 2020 14:59:32
Nonsense,
If you break it down like that, then O'Shea, Nani, Anderson, Wes Brown, and so on, would not be considered good enough for a title challenging team but they did it. If that's going too far back, then over half the Leicester team would not be considered good enough. It just doesn't work like that. But I agree our squad is short, when you have to play Pogba and Greenwood out wide because no wingers were signed proves that.


4.) 13 Dec 2020
13 Dec 2020 15:11:23
Ed047 agree. Take bruno out of the equation and we would be in the bottom half, a true reflection of ole to be honest.

{Ed047's Note - I don’t think it’s hard to see where you’d be without him that’s for sure.


5.) 13 Dec 2020
13 Dec 2020 15:19:01
You are looking at this on an individual basis and becoming title winners is much more then ability.

It’s about the collective, the mentality and also the competition.

You could have the best 11 in the world but one or two injuries and not a very good squad and you start losing games. Spurs don’t have the best 11 but injuries to son or Kane and they will struggle.

You need to grind results when not playing well, it’s practically impossible to be at your best for 38 games but you need to just get the result. We did it last year and fergie had that element throughout his time with you.

Then there’s the competition, we had a brilliant team in 08/ 09 but where beaten by a better side one that didn’t succumb to pressure. A fact as Rafa would say. But Leicester in 15 won because everyone else was so poor but they worked brilliantly as a team.

You boys are not a million miles away from winning but the thing that will stop you more then anything is united as a collective not working together for the same goal.


6.) 13 Dec 2020
13 Dec 2020 15:22:46
Blimey Shappy, where do you find the time? 😂.

{Ed047's Note - on occasions like this, the term “god only knows” has to be 100% true. 🤷‍♂️


7.) 13 Dec 2020
13 Dec 2020 15:57:46
Shappy crucified Jose because he publicly said they weren't good enough but Shappy himself can do it.


8.) 13 Dec 2020
13 Dec 2020 16:32:38
I disagree. If Pep, or Klopp, or Ancelotti, or a host of others had this squad we would have a clear style and be much more consistent, I think a better Manager would get a lo more from this group of players. I’m with Red Man, 3 quality additions and a top Manager and we will be in the mix.


9.) 13 Dec 2020
13 Dec 2020 17:03:03
I think far and away the most important addition is a top class manager. Look what Ancelloti, Hasenhuttl, Biesla have done with average squads. Fergie brought out the best from numerous distinctly average players. An assortment of brilliant players with a crap manager can sink like a stone whereas a brilliant manager can lift average players.


10.) 13 Dec 2020
13 Dec 2020 18:25:38
Well this is simple, if we get a new manager and some shiny new signings and we don't win the league with that manager then I'll have been right, if we do then I'll have been wrong. Let's wait and see.


11.) 13 Dec 2020
13 Dec 2020 19:07:50
We need a good management team which includes top quality coaches to bring the best out of our recently signed gems.

A DoF is must as our squad is bloated especially at CB, wherein we have 8 but none of them top quality.
Also we are trying to fit in so many of these Central midfielders.

Wing play is in the DNA of the club but I don't see any actual wingers in the club.

{Ed0666's Note - not many wingers plenty of whingers tho


12.) 13 Dec 2020
13 Dec 2020 21:20:09
shappy you sound like a spoilt child who throws his toys out of the pram because a lot do not agree with you. most prem managers could get this squad playing better. oles football is on a par with lvg who won a trophy. he is begining to make jose look like a flair manager. personaly anybody that can play attaking football gets my vote. not oles ten behind the ball borefest.


13.) 13 Dec 2020
13 Dec 2020 21:59:33
Shappy, if we get a new manager and new players, and don’t win the league, that doesn’t prove you right.

We can hire badly again, and we will. And that also applies to player recruitment.

Our recent history says the next manager will get a few players in, and then fail to be backed in their 2nd season.

But that doesn’t mean we should just stick with Ole.


14.) 13 Dec 2020
13 Dec 2020 22:16:34
And longest ever post award goes to.


15.) 14 Dec 2020
13 Dec 2020 20:02:01
Lol that's so true Ed0666 :)

{Ed0666's Note - glad someone agrees with me lol


16.) 14 Dec 2020
13 Dec 2020 20:19:29
I couldn't agree more Trd, we have an unbalanced squad too many cbs and too many central midfielders and very little width . I think ole wants to play 4231 but since we have loads of cbs and loads of central midfielders he messes with formation too much and picks teams and formations around this instead of it being addressed .
We have had the big name managers and the football was as dull as it is now and we were still a country mile behind.

Instead of a big cv achieved years ago I hope we look at someone like nagelsman, outgunned in germany and in europe his team come out swinging punches and have a clear style of play which is also attacking and exciting and he seems more than willing to trust his skills and go to to toe with anyone.

He did get a bad loss at ot but in the group everyone played everyone home and away, he knocked us out and qualified and in my opinion did it being brave and playing great stuff despite not having the best team.