08 Jan 2021 04:10:24
This squad is more capable than Ole can handle and that's why we are too dependent on individual performances to get us results and we have these cycles of inconsistency.

The potential that this squad has in midfield and forward positions is truly the best we have had since Sir Alex. Better coaching and tactics would bring the best out of these players and make us a force to fear.

The defense is our weak link and yet with proper coaching we should be able to organize and get the best out of our current defensive options. It almost feels that the current setup is putting more emphasis on attack and neglecting aspects of defending.

If the board is sold on Ole for the long term then it could be a worry for a lot of young talented prospects from the academy because I am not sure if Ole will be able to integrate them into the first team given his preference for playing his favored ones all the time and seeing how a quality player like VDB has been treated so far.

1.) 08 Jan 2021
08 Jan 2021 08:48:42
Let's play
How many points above the scouse and City do you think ole should have us.

2.) 08 Jan 2021
08 Jan 2021 09:13:54
We are joint top with a game in hand. In context of this season I don't think we could realistically be any higher than where we are all things considered.

I'm also not sure if we could play better/ more consistent football either.

We have a poor defence (accepted by pretty much everyone), we have a disjointed and imbalanced midfield, while in attack we rely on young and inconsistent players.

The defence needs rebuilding, with at least two new players brought in.

Midfield we need to shift Pogba, probably Matic as well and then sign a holding midfielder who can link everything together and give us a midfield platform to build from. Personally I think Donny needs to be part of our new midfield. Only Bruno is nailed on as a part of our midfield going forward though.

In attack we still have no creative wide players, and no one who is a special-ist on the right. Rashford and Greenwood are young and inconsistent. Cavani can only offer a short term solution. While it's becoming clear that, while talented, Martial isn't good enough to be the lead striker for a title challenging team.

I'm struggling to see this great side that should be putting two teams (Liverpool and City) to the sword who have averaged 95+ points each over the past 3 seasons.

At very best we have the third best side in the league. On paper you could argue that Chelsea have a better squad and Spurs have as good a first 11.

Yet we are joint top, win our game in hand and we are top outright. Above at least two teams that are better than us and arguably above a couple more who might be better than us. That's overachieving not underachieving. Whether the club can maintain that over the whole season remains to be seen.

3.) 08 Jan 2021
08 Jan 2021 12:27:35
We lost a game, we’re all doomed again.

{Ed047's Note - it’s been that way since 2013

4.) 08 Jan 2021
08 Jan 2021 13:59:03
Jred, you're asking the wrong question. It's not "how many points ahead of Liverpool or City do you expect us to be? " It should be, "we've dropped 15 points in 16 games, where could we improve on this? "

You're constantly making out that Ole has this team playing better than the sum of its parts. All because we're level with the Champions Liverpool. Who by the way lost their 3 first centre backs on the back of an unbelievable 2 years. The worst thing Liverpool or City can do each season is take 6 points from us. The other 34 games a season doesn't concern them.

So we dropped 15 points this season. There's loads of room for improvement. A better manager could hypothetically have us 10 points better off. Could have done what Liverpool did last year and had maximum points after 16 games.

Constantly making it out like we're in uncharted territory and only Ole could have got us here.

Shappy, your defence of Ole last year was "Klopp and Pep are the two best managers, Ole finished 3rd. So that means no manager could have done better"

Again you're missing the point. There are plenty of managers who are better than him. Better coach, better tactician, better at implementing a style.

You're saying you struggle to see how this team could compete with 95+ points Liverpool and City. The good part is we don't have to. We have to compete with this seasons iterations of those teams.

We're doing well. But the question should simply be, is Ole getting the maximum from this squad? Is Ole getting the maximum from each player?

I think a decent manager has this United team 8/ 10 points better off.

5.) 08 Jan 2021
08 Jan 2021 14:35:32
Mumbles, I don't disagree that a better manager will have us playing better football.

What I think everyone forgets when looking at us this season is context. In a normal season I would expect us to be 5-8 points better off at least. But this isn't a normal season.

Last year Liverpool had an extra 16 points and an additional +12 in goal difference compared to this stage of this season (after 17 games) . They lost no key players in the summer and arguably strengthened their squad significantly with the signings of Thiago and Jota.

Whereas, United have an extra 9 points compared to the same stage last season (after 16 games) .

This is not a normal season and that needs to be considered when assessing this seasons performances.

Should Liverpool sack Klopp for such a poor drop off in form?

6.) 08 Jan 2021
08 Jan 2021 15:56:01
How many extra to villa have? Spurs?
Southamton? Lots of teams cousin v well like ourselves. Liverpool and city set unsustainable standards for lady 3 years. Its not the C.V. costing Liverpool its their injuries they had very few last year to their main men.

7.) 08 Jan 2021
08 Jan 2021 16:23:03
Mumbles I have repeatedly said there is room for improvement.
But u ignore it to be dramatic

I've also said that while we sit joint top on points with a game in hand things are not as bad as people make out . maybe the grass isn't always greener .
A better manager would have us blah blah blah . You don't know that, God you see that in football every day there is no sure things.

I'm always amazed that the same people who berate our back 4 mctom matic, pogba, Fred and martial expect us to be above city and the scouse .
Especially when they also think we have an inept manager as well .
Something doesn't add up.

8.) 08 Jan 2021
08 Jan 2021 16:27:35
Mumbles
You say
" a good manager could have done what Liverpool did last year and had maximum points after 16 games"

I think you need a reality check.
But each to there own.

9.) 08 Jan 2021
08 Jan 2021 16:34:16
Shappy, stop trying to prop Ole up by discussing other managers. Klopp right now sits a top of the league, through in Europe and the Premier League badge on their arm is gold.

Every time Spurs drop points Jred is on the site gleaming like a kid who figured out the parental lock on the Sky box.

Every season that's gone means nothing. You can only beat what's in front of you and right now we've dropped points in 6 of our 16 games. There's a lot of room for improvement and another semi final defeat just shows maybe Ole has reached his ceiling.

If we're still in the hunt for the league by The start of April I will be impressed. But this false dawn like we've finally arrived because we went 2nd is tedious.

10.) 08 Jan 2021
08 Jan 2021 16:45:10
Mumbles
Every time Spurs drop points Jred is on the site gleaming like a kid who figured out the parental lock on the Sky box.


Again no idea what your on about, I love it when the scouse drop points tho .
I'm also not sure what thst has to do with anything 🤷‍♂️.

11.) 08 Jan 2021
08 Jan 2021 16:51:14
Jred. You're perfectly happy to lose a semi-final to our main rivals because Ole is the one in charge. Getting humiliated in the Champions League doesn't bother you because Ole is the one in charge.

My love and connection to Man Utd is a very emotional one. Just because you watch us get beat by City and then say "that wasn't that bad" doesn't mean other fans have to follow suit.

I want the best for Manchester United. You just want to say "I told you so"

12.) 08 Jan 2021
08 Jan 2021 17:53:32
Mumbles
I'm realistic just because I want something doesn't mean it will happen.
Again your talking nonsense about me and being dramatic. I haven't said any of them things.

13.) 08 Jan 2021
08 Jan 2021 18:28:03
Mumbles, my first reply simple stated that in context we aren't doing too poorly this season. Joint top with a game in hand. What will your excuse be if we win against Burnley, hell we could draw with Burnley and still be top of the league.

It was you in your reply to be that brought up other managers. "Shappy, your defence of Ole last year was "Klopp and Pep are the two best managers, Ole finished 3rd. So that means no manager could have done better". "

So I replied that again you completely ignore context like a child screaming "why haven't I got a birthday present" while at someone else's Birthday party when its not your Birthday.

I used the comparison of Liverpool's season and points last year to their points this year to highlight the level of drop off in performance seen across the EPL.

Earlier I worked out the final table based on points per game (which is the system the EPL will use if the season cannot be completed) . Based on the points per game model currently we would finish top with 78 points, with Liverpool 2nd on 74 points.

Compare that to last season where Liverpool finished with 99 points, or the year before when City finished with 98 points or the year before when City finished with 100 points. A points total of 78 points wouldn't have even seen us finish 2nd in any of the past three seasons.

Highlighting how the performance of sides has dropped dramatically this season, maybe due to the lack of a summer break, maybe due to a lack of a pre-season, maybe due to fixture congestion or maybe due to no fans in the stadium. Either way none of those things are likely to change this season. So the inconsistency of ALL the teams in the league is likely to continue.

14.) 08 Jan 2021
08 Jan 2021 18:33:31
We have done well but the acid test starts with Burnley in the week, now we have lost again our recent history shows we go on losing streaks after winning ones, we need to beat Burnley then if we want a real statement beat the scousers but in reality avoid defeat, 2 league losses now and things could spiral.

As you say we are massively reliant on Bruno and individual moments from Rashford, that's alongside our weak defence is not what will win you leagues unfortunately, too many off the cuff players like Martial and Pogba.

Touching on youth, Ole sold us on the man utd way, what youth has be really broken in under Ole? Bought James and AwB, Scott and Rash had already broken in, Brandon has been blocked and I don't recall us being a defence minded team as our way.
Also I've said about Donny since his 1st benching, could see a mile off things wasn't right there despite some on here saying the opposite, United is about being brave, taking risks, nor sure Ole is either, Phelan certainly isn't, x2 DM in most games hoping for moments of brilliance with clas acts benched week in and out, if things start going south again then I start to worry for what Bruno will be thinking.

Anyway, 2nd in the league with opportunity to go top, so I don't want to be too negative but we have seen many false dawns under Ole before, if we get into Feb in the same or better position then it'll be a race.