02 Dec 2021 05:09:43
Now the hysteria of the Rangnick appointment has subsided I'm yet to be convinced it's the genius acquisition many fans anticipate.

Our position in the league table is precarious. The league title was surrendered in October and now even top 4 is in serious jeopardy. Getting an underperforming team, low on confidence to play a totally different system and style of football may prove to be a difficult and risky operation. Klopp struggled during his early years at Liverpool with questions marks over players fitness, burn out and injury. Whilst it might seem exciting to see Utd approach games with a different mindset many players have shown little appetite to press and with Rangnick moving to a consultancy role in the summer getting the players to buy into his philosophy might be easier said than done. It's also concerning that Rangnick will be forced to work with Carrick, McKenna and Phelan. Concerns have been raised regarding the quality of coaching at Utd for a number of years with Carrick and McKenna already surviving two managers in their short careers. It's not yet been established if Rangnick will bring any of his own coaches to the Club so teaching the players a new system with those already at the Club adds an extra level of complexity to his task.

The consultancy role is ambiguous and it remains to be seen just how much influence Rangnick has once he finishes his role as interim manager. It seems incredulous that the Club would chose to ignore the likes of Conte only to appoint Rangnick a few weeks later who also has a reputation for wanting things his own way. Is this yet more smoke and mirrors or are the Club really going to relinquish power and allow Rangnick to make important footballing decisions. I remain deeply sceltical of his consultancy role and it will be intriguing to see how it develops and evolves.

The devil they say is always in the detail. As always we are left to speculate and interpret the Clubs intentions because the detail is always hard to find.

1.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 06:56:47
DLIB

It only shows the utter folly of waiting as long as they did to deal with an issue obvious since the start of his tenure, let alone this season. The previous manager was supported in the press by his mates, yet now look what they are saying. The players are disconnected and disjointed, lost all their confidence, haven’t really got a system of play and are not very good defensively.

Some are putting a flag out to say thank you for this mess.

If we get anything out of this season it is a bonus, the best point is to build for a better long term future which is what Rangnick is here to do. Even so the club messed up again, not making a decision until after the international break, then the visa issue, all very amateur.

This season is difficult because of poor decision making at senior level, take a view anything is a bonus and see what happens.

2.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 08:25:01
Red Man - By no means is my post anti Rangnick. I’m just not convinced it’s the utopia many have suggested.

I’m deeply suspicious of his consultancy role and the title itself doesn’t exactly scream chief decision maker. I fear it’s yet another stunt in order to quell supporter unrest and pull the wool over our eyes.

It’s almost as if a computer has concocted the plan based on its social media algorithm. What do the fans want? Attacking football with an emphasis on youth and an experienced, expert at board level to make important football decisions = Rangnick.

Utd is all fairy lights and candy-floss without substance. Scratch beneath the veneer and it remains a corporate entity devoid of the magic its so desperately trying to sell.

The Ole fanfare doesn’t make sense whilst his three stooges sit on the bench as he watches with his family in Norway. His legacy and his influence endures through those coaches whilst the Club lacked the appetite for a cull.

What we needed was revolution devoid of sentimentality and emotion. I fear what we’ve ended up with is more musical chairs on the titanic.

3.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 08:58:00
Rangnick is an experienced and intelligent man, i doubt very much he'd agree to come in unless he had it nailed down pretty tight what his consultancy role meant .

As for this season, if he can get us looking like a team that's actually had some coaching during the week and get us playing some decent football, i'll take anything after that as a bonus.

4.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 09:11:41
DLIB, this season will be what it will be. Personally I think it's about making the best of it for the rest of this season.

Arguably the three best teams in Europe atm all play in the EPL. With only maybe Bayern Munich able to genuinely say they are currently playing at a similar level. Both Barcelona and Real Madrid are in the middle of a transitional period, as are Juventus, while PSG still flatter to deceive.

Are there any other sides in Europe with the same quality of players, putting in as good performances, consistently? I don't think so.

While we are entering another transitional stage and obviously won't be at the level to genuinely compete.

I don't see Rangnick as the saviour, but a potential move in the right direction. Rather than hire the wrong man because the right one isn't available the club are making a much more sensible move.

While bringing in someone like Rangnick shows the potential for a serious look at shaking things up. Whether that comes to pass I get we'll have to wait and see.

His title as consultant I think is just a way to make sure the boat isn't rocked too much.

Apparently the decision to hire Rangnick was taken without consulting Sir Alex, which if true is a huge relief. While the decision was driven my John Murtaugh, someone with some footballing background. While the rumours of Richard Arnold wanting to take a more hands off approach to the footballing aspects compared to Ed Woodward is another promising rumour.

Murtaugh apparently spent sometime at visiting RB and is a fan of Rangnick. Which is what lead him to push for his appointment. That again suggests that while Rangnick's direct powers might be more limited as a consultant, it appears that the running of the footballing activities will be left to Murtaugh and Fletcher, both of which are likely to lean heavily on Rangnick and take his opinions seriously. Which of course having someone with such experience holding such sway over people who will be left to make key decisions is a promising thought.

Will it work, or are the rumours just being leaked to quell fan unrest and keep us happy and compliant? Only time will tell.

However, I've never thought the owners WANT the club to be run poorly, just that they don't actually know HOW to run a club well. They have generally taken a hands off approach and delegated to others. Their mistake has been to delegate to people who either don't know what they are doing or who have their own agenda.

Woodward has always struck me as egotistical, hopefully Arnold is more humble and prepared to listen to the right people and bow to their greater understanding.

In the end it's all just hopes and maybe dreams until it becomes reality.

At the very least this gives us hope that things MIGHT start to change, that we maybe realising the mistakes of the past and moving to rectify them. Obviously only time will tell.

5.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 09:27:06
why is the leauge over?

theres 25 games left why can't we go on a run? the players are going to be well trained for the first time in 3 years. well drilled, given a plan and a way of playing.

we have a good squad if the manager can get a tune from them and improve them what's to say we can't still challenge? unlikely yes but why aim for any less.

still in 2 cups and chelsea proved last season, they were dyer before lampard left, only takes a spark to light the fire.

today is a must win game hopefully the boys can perform and give us somthing to cheer for.

6.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 09:35:46
Dlib as you say the devil is in the detail.
You know none of it so why worry?
Don't turn into shappy worrying about stuff you have no idea about and looking at scenarios that may or may not happen.
You have no idea what his role is or will be in the future so why by worried.
Take a leap of faith and wait and see. You can only control the controllable and you have no control or in depth knowledge so don't worry about it.

7.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 10:08:03
I appreciate my posts may have come across as overly negative but I fear Rangnick’s appointment only causes yet more uncertainty as to who is actually making the important decisions at our Club. The general consensus is this is a good appointment but I have my reservations about trying to implement a radical new style a third of the way into a new season complicated further by Rangnick having to rely on existing coaches that so far haven’t proved themselves good enough.

I have no doubt Rangnick is an experienced, highly competent coach, leader and visionary but whilst the same obstacles remain I’m not convinced he’s been given the right tools or even the authority to do his job.

Anyway it’s a vitally important game this evening and I’m hoping the Club have made a step in the right direction despite my reservations. I’ve voiced my concerns and look forward to the rest of the season and beyond. Ole had no future and was quickly becoming a divisive figure. At least some hope has been returned as without hope we have nothing. All the best guys.

8.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 10:10:29
For me the appointment signals a change in direction the club have either decided to go in or more than likely, forced to go in. Either way I consider it a positive. If what you read is true about Ragnick, I don't think the 2 year consultancy role is one for him to come and ease his way into retirement, he's a football man and will want to show he can still have a big influence on football and in particular one of the biggest clubs in the world.

As for working with our current coaches, it was always going to be hard to convince someone to come in short term before our supposed top target is available so for him to bring in staff on short contracts without the guarantee of a job at the end was likely to be even tougher. Whoever comes in full time at the end of the season will have their own coaches they want to come in with them.

If we are to sign anyone in January then this will be to carry out the system Ragnick wants to embed and I guess this will all be a part of the interviews with candidates and whether they will/ can work with system Ragnick will be trying to work on between now and the new manager. It seems strange that we would employ someone who has a clear style of play to then employ someone with a completely different style who will then only have a pre season to implement that with the players.

As for this season. I think top 4 is more than achievable with the players we have in the squad and what we have seen with these players is that they are capable who going on runs and you can get a kick out of them with a new manager, we saw this when Solskjaer was appointed. Then if we can get an FA Cup in the cabinet or dare I say the European Cup (Not for 1 second saying we are going to win it but as seen with Tuchel and Chelsea not beyond impossible. I personally think the European Cup is easier to win then the Premier League) the season will be see as a success and puts us in a good position going into next season.

I for one am quite excited about this, potentially new change of direction, style the team is going to do in. Like Ken said, no point worrying now, let's just enjoy as much as we can for now. I personally am already enjoying the likes of Souness and Carragher trying to find negatives in the manager, the players he may or may not upset. Liverpool are flying yet they're still talking about United. Some things never change I guess.

9.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 10:13:50
Agreed ken. All I know is that he is regarded as a very good coach and is much more qualified and experienced than our previous coach Ole.

It looks all pretty positive to me.

10.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 11:05:12
DLIB, any manager that comes in part the way through the season will have to implement a radically different style if they are to turn things around.

The previous manager was sacked because his system wasn't working. So whoever was to come in would have to mix things up and change how we are playing.

If the plan is to hire a manager who using a pressing style in the summer then having a temporary manager who understands and has a proven track record of implementing such a style means that the next manager isn't starting at ground zero and will have a group of players who have spent 6 months learning a similar style of play. Surely making any transition between managers much smoother.

As for the coaches, yes they have been poor under Ole. How much control or independence they had over coaching sessions under Ole no one knows. But I'd expect Rangnick to control the coaching sessions. He'll decide what is needed and how those sessions will be run. He'll then expect the coaches to carry out his instructions.

Any half decent coach can run a session that has been designed by someone else. The best coaches can come up with and adapt sessions to suit the players.

As long as they can follow instructions it shouldn't be too big of a problem.

On of Rangnick's biggest successes during his career has been his ability to improve the coaches he works with.

While the reality of sacking them all and allowing Rangnick to bring in an entire coaching team for 6 months is ridiculous.

I expect he'll bring 1 or 2 key people in with him. Probably to officially fill roles that currently don't exist.

As for his authority, I'd argue he has more than a traditional manager. He'll have a say over players long term futures at the club in his consultancy role.

While a lot is made about whether the players will respect him and follow his instructions. The truth is players are people just like us. And just like us they have a manager overseeing and setting them their work. Have you ever looked up a managers CV or past positions to decide whether you will listen to them? Or do you base it on what they say and how they treat you. If the manager is talking sense and is being fair then you'll listen to them and follow their instructions.

Rangnick is an experienced coach who has never had a problem getting players to buy into his ideas. He is intelligence and articulate, and he understands footballers and their psyche.

Too many media outlets are questioning whether Ronaldo will run around like a headless chicken or become a pressing monster under Rangnick. That's just poor analysis and setting a crazy unrealistic expectation.

Rangnick often plays with a front two and given our squad it probably makes sense to continue with a variation of that. With his front two he has one player look to press and the other to cut off the passing lanes and force the opposition to pass towards the touchline. All Ronaldo will need to do is learn to cut off the passing lane back to a CB. He doesn't have to chase and make tackles, just make sure he is between the CB and the player on the ball.

Most players when they see a quality and intensity to the coaching, and they start to see improvements in their own game they will be more than happy with Rangnick.

11.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 11:12:22
Bolger, the season isn't officially over, but is as good as for us in terms of a title challenge.

If we go on an unbelievable run and win 21 of our remaining 25 games losing 2 and drawing 2 we'll have 83 points come the end of the season.

But would need City, Chelsea and Liverpool to each drop at least 23 points (the equivalent of losing 7 games and drawing 1 from their remaining 24 games) to win the league.

One of them might have a bad run of form, but not all of them.

While that scenario only works if we win 21 of our remaining 25 games with only 2 losses.

The reality is we will probably drop more than that, which means we need the three best teams in Europe currently to ALL draw or lose around HALF of their remaining 24 games.

A league challenge is gone, if we are very lucky we might be able to pinch 3rd.

For us the league is over, we need to focus on the cups and on getting this squad into shape for the next manager.

12.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 11:27:27
Good thread! Enjoyed reading all your opinions. All we can do is get behind the team and hope it signals a change in direction and decision making.

13.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 11:39:30
I agree shappy, the league isn't mathmatically over but realistically it is for me anyway. The hope, glimmer of light is that we have a man coming in who teams play with a certain style and way that is both forward thinking and is revered by many top coaches so its positive news.
It will undoubtedly take a little while to implement and indeed will without doubt need to replace personnelwho are no longer required for the "project" with those that are more suitable.
All I want is to travel best part of 300 mile round trip with a mixture of excitement/ anticipation and pleasure at seeing performances with results in our favour. A cup is not out of the question this season which given the timing of the managerial switch would be more than welcome.

14.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 12:02:48
Good stuff DLIB.

15.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 13:16:17
Of course you remain to be convinced DLIB as you are talking about things yet to be seen.
For me as it stands it is more of a new lease of hope (justifiably so) rather than being convinced. We hope this brings a 'new dawn' for utd with greener pastures.

16.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 13:27:46
There is still time for a surge up the table and a good CL run.
I’d be very happy with 4th and a semi final in the CL. Maybe they could finish 5th and still qualify depending on their European success in either CL/ Europa, or whether another English team wins it.
Other than implementing a style and confidence Rangnick surely has goals to aim at, I’d be pleased with 4th and a decent CL run given the present situation.

17.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 19:26:15
Dlib I like reading your posts. None of us have any real idea how things will pan out.
But you have hit the nail in the head. We have hope. When there is hope i'm always a glass full man.

18.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 23:33:25
Spenno,

Definitely no Europa this year mate.

19.) 02 Dec 2021
02 Dec 2021 23:46:55
Great Post Dlib. For me, Rangnick will bring a change of culture onto the club. A move to a more modern style. His coaching will improve players. But I'm looking forward to United having a plan and a more structured transfer policy. Hopefully, we'll be buying players to fit into a system and not the other way round.
It's going to be an extremely difficult job, and I'm not expecting success this season, but we need to put foundations in place so the club can move forward.