27 Jun 2022 01:10:18
Rumors that Barcelona asked for Harry Maguire to be included in the FDJ deal. If that weren't ridiculous enough already, apparently we turned it down. Now I really have heard it all.


1.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 02:43:22
From the sun, so no story in all probability.


2.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 06:48:10
Really depends on what the deal was.

What was his value in the deal, did they want to knock 10m off in exchange for Maguire?

Personally I'd take anything to move him on. I don't think he has the intelligence or the mobility to play how EtH looks to play. While the whole captaincy issue with him is a headache I think EtH can do without.

Keep his as captain then you have an ineffectual captain. The way the squad just gave up last season shows Maguire isn't fit to lead. Yet if you take the captaincy away from him then you could potentially provide a split in the dressing room.

Personally I think Rangnick's preference for allowing the squad to pick their captain might be a clever one. You are less likely to create a split that way, and at least know that the captain has the support of the majority of the dressing room.


3.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 08:53:29
I’d have chucked Maguire in for free as a sweetener! He isn’t good enough, that simple.


4.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 08:28:49
Im pretty sure Arsenal allowed the players to pick their captains and ended up with xhaka and aubameyang. i bet there are good examples of it working also but this is the main one I've heard about with this idea.


5.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 08:59:28
It's an awful idea then you might not get the captain you want a manager.
Whomever is carousing should be the managers choice imo.
Otherwise it's a case of the tail wagging the dog.
If it was a settled squad and unified like City then it might be different. But even then my understanding is the squad are given 3 options to choose from selected by the manager.
In eth's position I can't think of a worse idea but that's a personal opinion.
Maybe that's one of the reasons why RR is such a failed manager. That philosophy had never brought him any success.


6.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 09:18:57
Ken, is RR a failed manager?


7.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 09:37:01
angelred - yes he was.


8.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 09:44:18
Yes angel he has never won anything of note to the best of my knowledge nor has he ever coached an elite club team until he came to united.
Awful managerial record.


9.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 09:45:27
Agreed Brooks I can't think of a worse idea for any new manager.


10.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 10:06:11
Keep Maguire as captain but never actually play him, he can do the pre match coin toss and post match interviews but doesn't actually have to play.


11.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 10:43:49
The Barcelona looking at Maguire was first voiced about 6 weeks back and laughed off as the obvious very late April Fools joke it seemed but apparently there was some legs to it. Ten Hag clearly sees something in Maguire that we (largely) don’t. He had an atrocious season. He’s a good header and his long passing isn’t bad to be fair but his lack of pace, especially in a more attacking / risk-taking Ten Hag style will surely be found out?

I think like many if someone offered half of what we paid for Maguire I’d snap their hand off. However we are in that period where we just have to trust the new manager.

A lot of us are frustrated at lack of signings compared to our rivals but I do think we’ve already made the signing of the summer in Ten Hag. I just hope he’s given the time he needs.


12.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 11:47:33
I watched a really good tactical breakdown video of us under Ole and RR last season. One thing that stood out is that Maguire gets pulled out of position very very easily, he can't resist pressing up into midfield rather than holding his line which creates a massive gap between the LB and RCB, this was a large contributing factor to our conceded goals last season. Teams appear to bait Maguire with this trap.

It was actually a really interesting piece and highlighted how structurally and statistically we improved under RR in the 2nd half of the season BUT a number of players essentially actively tried to look busy whilst not doing much.

One player I'm interested to see under EtH is Bruno as his passing play over the last two seasons doesn't really fit with how EtH plays. Also without the ball he's one of the players highlighted to look busy but not offer much.


13.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 12:09:37
Nothing wrong with the team choosing the captain. I played for 40+ years including 20 at a reasonable level and in most of those the team chose the captain. Not only should he be the leader on and off the park but also the players representative with the coaching staff. Having the manager choose the captain results in choices like Maguire. Do you think the team would have chosen that clown? I doubt it. There is also the risk that the managerial chosen captain is perceived the teachers pet and can cause ill feeling.

But that just my humble opinion.


14.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 12:26:57
Couldn't disagree more keefy.
Let's let the staff pick the ceo next and the head scout.


15.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 12:28:00
Rewz, That is the really issue with Maguire. A lot of people talk about his lack of pace or mobility, which obviously aren't ideal. However, many defenders have been truly world class without a turn of pace or are not the most mobile.

The nature of a centre back tends to be that they are taller and physically larger, the trade off to those traits is that it means their acceleration is slower and they aren't as mobile.

The real problem with Maguire is he is a headless chicken. His lack of pace and mobility wouldn't be a problem if he was in the right position.

But he wanders off into midfield and tries to win balls back aggressively that aren't there to be won.

For me the only system that can mitigate Maguires weaknesses is a back three system which means there is less space left behind him when he wanders off. The two remaining CB's can shuffle across to keep the gaps to a manageable size.

I think he would actually look pretty good at either Spurs or Chelsea, not world class, but not a complete donkey either.

Bruno I think will be fine, but I understand the concerns over him. Even in EtH's side not every player will look to make the safe pass that retains possession. Tadic was never a "safe" player, yet he adapted wonderfully to EtH's system.

Bruno also plays deeper and with less pressure to make things happen for Portugal. I wonder how much of Bruno trying to force risky passes over the past 2 years is more down to a lack of movement and good passing options ahead of him with our forward.

As for his "pointless" work rate, it might just be that he is a player happy to press amongst players who didn't press. In football an effective press MUST be done as a team. Bruno has shown willing, if his team mates stepped up and pressed with him then maybe his pressing wouldn't be considered pointless.


16.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 12:54:04
Good points shappy.
These players have not had an elite professional environment to work in many of them since they signed for the club.
A good manager has a team plan that all players must adhere to.
Under ole players did what they liked when they liked and this days are gone
All our players will improve this season.


17.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 13:31:00
Ken, while I think EtH will at times make concessions for the players at his disposal, he is much more a system oriented coach as opposed to a player oriented coach.

Much more a case of "this is how we play, you need to do this in this situation and that in that situation" rather than a case of putting good players together and entrusting them to figure it out.

Some player will adapt to it in time, some will take to it like a duck to water, others will struggle and fall by the wayside.

The important thing is the manager is backed throughout his entire time at the club. It doesn't matter what the name or how much a player cost, if they can't play the way he needs them to play then the club need to move them on. Get them out the squad, don't leave them there discontented and causing a bad atmosphere.

Personally from the outside looking in there are a few players who stand out as players I really think will struggle with the type of systems EtH used at Ajax and Utrecht.

His style requires players who can read the game and adapt and change their role depending on the situation in game.

In defence for example, Timber and Martinez line up as the CB's, but they also rotate round to be playing as a full back at times, or step into midfield.

My concerns are over players who lack in technical ability and tactical intelligence.

Maguire, AWB and Shaw are players who tend to play more on instinct than making intelligent decisions though good reading of the game.

They all might struggle, as the demands on them will increase and they will need to play more with their head than they ever have.

In midfield Fred and McTominay might struggle for different reasons. Fred isn't the best technically and can have a loose touch. While McTominay seems to struggle with his positioning in the build up. Often one of our CB's have the ball and McTominay is standing in the opposition CF shadow effectively marking himself out of the game. Good coaching could fix that, its also important to remember the played youth football at CF or No.10 and never as a holding midfielder, so he's probably only ever had a small amount of coaching under Jose on playing that position.

Let wait and see though, maybe with top class coaching those players might surprise a few of us.

What excites me most is for the first time in many years we have a younger up and coming top class coach whose ideas and style fit well with the current football landscape, and the progressive nature our club is synonymous with.

Is he the right manager? Only time will tell, but he is the right profile of manager.

Exciting times.


18.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 14:32:43
Wouldn't have minded to be a failure like him ?.


19.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 14:53:28
Angel he won nothing I think your more ambitious than that.
He had not been a financial failure just a coaching one.


20.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 15:20:31
Makes it a shame that his actual expertise wasn't used in the one area the clubs needs the most!


21.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 15:32:41
What the club needs most is a team that performs on the pitch and a coach that can make that work.
Owners have not been found wanting in investing in players. They spend more than anybody else. Never forget that.
But too many folk get caught up in stuff they either don't understand or know anything about.
Concentrate on the football. If that goes well the capability to invest in the infrastructure will improve. Its not rocket science.
Don't forget it's their money and they can do with they like with it. But they cannot be accused of not providing funds for the team.


22.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 16:38:46
I understand ken, but I think it's been long known and said by eds on here that they are amateurs.

Would've been good to keep him.


23.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 16:43:03
Eth didn't want to work with him therefore he had to go.
Be patient angel.


24.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 16:44:54
To use your thought process I wouldn't mind being armatures as successful as our owners.
Too many people are jealous of their position as owners. If it was so easy why didn't you or others do what they did.
Simply because they are smarter than the average bear.


25.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 18:16:17
Hey Shappy,

If we were to get De Jong and a CDM such as Sangare, do you think it would help Maguire be less likely to get pulled out of position by offering more protection?

Also, do we have any fullbacks in the squad/ youth teams that can move into the inverted Position (more CM) EtH likes his fullbacks to pick up during build up?

The more I research the systems that EtH has utilised the more I’m excited to see what he can do. I can see Sancho really kicking on for us next season having been in a team that uses pressing traps and build up structure similarly to those used by EtH teams. I can see why he wants De Jong primarily as this type of player is imperative for how he likes to build up and transition. I can see why he wants Antony as we are predictable, most of the time attacking down the left. Fullbacks I can see being an issue as ours don’t really fit.


26.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 19:04:03
Rewz, simply the club can't afford to fix every issue EtH is likely to have this summer.

So there will be positions we know are weak or could be a problem but can't do anything about until next summer at the earliest.

I don't think there are any midfielders we could buy that would stop Maguire constantly having brain farts.

He doesn't just move into empty space, he has one numerous occasions just charged out and got in the way of one of our midfielders rather than leave it to them.

He did the same thing at Leicester but a combination of Evans and Chilwell along with Ndidi would cover for him.

Maybe EtH can coach him to stop doing it, yet I doubt it as I don't think Maguire has the intelligence to understand what he is doing wrong, let alone the common sense to learn from it. He's 29 years old, he isn't a green kid who's still wet behind the ears. He's a seasoned professional, with over 10 years experience at the highest level both domestically and internationally.

Dalot could easily play the inverted role, and would be easy to coach it I feel.

Shaw in theory has the skillset to do it, but does he have the intelligence?

We have young players in Laird and Fernandez who should be malleable enough for EtH to educate and develop his ideas into their progression.


27.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 19:21:25
I think it's the ones who run the club that are the amateurs, because the glazers aren't lol.

That's where my logic is applies.

Glazers care about commercial, I think that's the only side that has been run right. Footballing? Let's have a look at the last 10 years.

ETH, great coach, but will only be as good as those at top willing to do right. Jose was good, LVG before him, all proper footballing men. Club didn't give them what was needed, therefore they went.


28.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 19:22:57
Patience is something I have for ETH, just not the rest of them.


29.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 20:29:09
I hear you mate.


30.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 21:35:09
Love your optimism though pal. And I hope to the high heavens you're right.

He is a couple of signings, possibly the emergence of Donny, and a few tactical changes away. Football is a funny old game.

And for all the crap we played at the end of last season, we weren't a million miles off top 4 so who knows.


31.) 27 Jun 2022
27 Jun 2022 22:00:14
I think the captain is a slightly different consideration than the CEO or coaching staff Ken. Taking the discussion a bit far there.

I have always allowed my teams to choose their captain. Whether you agree or disagree it has for the most part been successful with a team that respects the captain.

I do agree though that it could mean the “staff” choose a weaker option but having the manager chose Maguire was a roaring success eh!

I am with you!00% that we need to have confidence in our new manager and hope he is given time to get his ethic across.


32.) 28 Jun 2022
28 Jun 2022 00:26:35
No worries keefy and yes I was stretching the point.
However our dressing room is divided so then choosing is a mess in the making.
But if the manager chooses then if your not behind the captain your not behind the manager.
What if the majority vote for maguire and he's not in the team.
Or ronaldo loses out to mctominay by a vote?
Nah can't let the lunatics run the asylum on this one.
Imo the captain is the managers man he should echo the words and standards of the manager. Never ever not be aligned unless behind closed doors.
Others see the captain as the players man, their voice, their buffer between the staff and the players.
That's not my view of a captain I'm very much of the former view.
But imo the really great captains are all of the former but the squad believe he is the latter.
Great captains have the trust of the manager and are respected by the squad not chosen by them.


33.) 28 Jun 2022
28 Jun 2022 08:24:59
Agree Ken. 100 %. With the current fractured playing group it is one time it could and probably would significantly backfire. Agree also that the captain should have the managers back. That is absolutely the baggage he must carry. The great captains just like NCO’s in the forces are the driving force. They filter the crap from above to make it more palatable.

There is also your point that with the current squad any player selected either by the team or manager would be a mess.

In the days of Fergie I would imagine that the players and manager would have agreed on the captains as they all played for the shirt not the money so anyone theoretically could have been captain.

However history has shown that the likes of Robson, Keane, Cantona etc. were clearly no brainer decisions.

Anyway. Let’s hope ETH can create a unified dressing room and we all move on from this conjecture eh!