1.) 20 Nov 2019
20 Nov 2019 07:55:59
Ed001. What are your initial thoughts on Jose taking over at Spurs?

{Ed001's Note - big mistake but Levy has to gamble as he is under huge pressure to deliver trophies now.}

2.) 20 Nov 2019
20 Nov 2019 08:20:27
Since Poch's news and mou's possible arrival will be the most discussed the next few days, let me divert a bit and tell you about a piece i read where Massimiliano Riccini, the U-18 coach of italian side Invictasauro was sacked because his team beat a struggling side 27-0. Club president said it showed disrespect to the opposing team.

{Ed001's Note - I can see his point, when it is a kids' team. But still seems a bit harsh to sack him.}

3.) 20 Nov 2019
20 Nov 2019 08:31:23
Never thought about it from that angle, guess there is a point.

{Ed001's Note - in kid's football it should not be about winning, it should be about improving the youngsters. What will they have gained from winning 27-0? I would suggest they have probably only gained negative things.}

4.) 20 Nov 2019
20 Nov 2019 10:09:38
So he should have told his team to stop trying as hard and pass it around at the back and not continue to try and score goals? Tough one, but not sure he should have been sacked for it.

5.) 20 Nov 2019
20 Nov 2019 10:12:58
It's a tricky one that could be seen as disrespectful from either side.

A few years ago I was managing an under 14's side. We were playing in a local cup competition where several of the sides were a significant drop in quality to my lads. In one game we were winning 11-0 at half time. So I told them to work on keeping possession, moving the ball and only take shots from distance. We won 12-0 in the end but I was accused of showing disrespect to the opposition by their manager and one of the dad's from the other side for clearly changing tactics and not "going for the kill" in the second half. They viewed it as my lads were just playing with them and taking the micky out of them.

I said there was nothing to be gained for my lads to thrash a team 20-0 while it would only demoralise the opposition who I had to remind them are just kids. It got a bit heated, and the officials stepped and sent plus in opposite directions. However, the manager of this team openly walked his lads off when my side won the tournament.

When coaching kids it's about making sure they love the game and that love for the game will be what drives them on to succeed. Beyond that keep improving them and encourage them to work on their weaker areas of the game. Play them in different positions to get them to think about the game from another perspective. I once played the smallest lad in goal, he often played full back but would leave massive gaps, so I played him in goal for a game so he could see what that did to the defence and how it made life harder for his keeper. We lost the game but he learned to be aware of the space he left behind him. What me and the other coaches did seemed to work as we often had lads snapped up by bigger sides.

6.) 20 Nov 2019
20 Nov 2019 10:43:30
The coaches in my son's league a few years ago, had an unwritten understanding, that once the score had reached double double figures, a nod and a handshake between each other called it a day. Better off using the extra time in a proper training session.

7.) 20 Nov 2019
20 Nov 2019 11:04:39
The team I played for as a kid were the whipping boys of the division. We had talented players, but our manager was always one of the lads dad who had a few smokes on the sideline at training while we kicked the ball around.

We would be hammered week in week out 6-0, 7-1. Even got beaten double figures a few times. When we hit u13's we had a proper manager. We were a decent mid table team a year later. We won a few cups the year after. I look back more fondly getting thrashed each week than the mid table seasons. Absolutely buzzing every Saturday to play together. I am fierce competitive and it wasn't nice losing but we weren't good enough.

I get the point in kids getting beaten by heavy scores but what's the worst that can happen? Your ego is bruised? I would be more offended if a team took their foot off the gas.

8.) 20 Nov 2019
20 Nov 2019 11:20:28
Mumbles, that's the benefit of hindsight. Both thrashing a team and easing up can be considered disrespectful.

The issue with football in Britain is often most young players will only ever be managed by someones dad with good intentions but no idea what is best.

Its the same issue with many ex-pro's struggling in coaching. The idea that because you were great at something means you can teach others how to be great doesn't stand up to scrutiny. You need to be able to see things from the people your coaching perspective. You need to be able to tailor your teaching to an individuals needs, you need to inspire them to push themselves rather than being the one pushing them.

You say you preferred getting beat, but how many lads joined the team and left demoralised by getting thrashed. Not every person is happy to lose heavily week after week. The fact the team performed better with a different coach suggests that the new coach taught you more and guided you better than the previous one.

In the case with Italian under 18's coach, his lads will have learned nothing from thrashing the opposition, while it may have started to sow a seed of arrogance and disrespect in their minds.
While for the team that got beaten 27-0, that will be demoralising and could take a long time for them to bounce back from that.

At a level where you are trying to build up and improve young players no one comes out of a 27-0 thrashing with anything positive.

Whilst I agree sacking the coach on the face of it was harsh, it might have been the wake up call the club needed to realise he didn't possess the right mentality to be working with their young players.

9.) 20 Nov 2019
20 Nov 2019 12:00:33
Shappy, all that being said, is it possible that the winning team players may get the idea that, 'if we give off our best, maybe our next coach will also be sacked'?

10.) 20 Nov 2019
20 Nov 2019 12:48:41
My best friends played on the team Shappy and we always have great chats about it. We all look back fondly on it.

My dad thought me to play chess when I was quite young. We'd play every couple of days and he would never let me win. He thought me the rules and then continued to beat me in chess for years. When I eventually beat him he always says it's one of his best memories of me growing up.

Some people win, most people lose. It's not the be all and end all in a football match for kids. So the kids that got beat 27-0 go home feeling like crap. Maybe that will spur them on because they don't want to feel that feeling again. Giving kids medals for participation is nonsense. Everybody on this site has had to overcome adversity in some forms. I think getting spanked 27-0 in a one off game is hardly going to ruin a kids life.

11.) 20 Nov 2019
20 Nov 2019 15:13:37
mbd, as with many things in life it can be taken in many different ways. Hopefully the right people are on hand to give good advice to the lads and most of them take heed of that advice.

Mumbles, there is a world of difference between the interaction of a child and one of their parents and a coach and a kid.

As a coach I feel I know the lads fairly well, but then I only see them of a few hours a week and in a very specific context. I don't know what is happening in their lives unless they or their parent tell me.

So who is better placed to tell if a child will handle constant defeat or not? Your dad knows you on a level no coach would ever be able to. He is a far better judge of whether he needs to go easy on you and let you win or whether he needs to keep things tough and make you learn and develop. I suspect he also chose his moment to play chess with you, knowing which times you are in the best frame of mind to potentially lose a game.

How do you know that one of those lads who suffered a humiliating 27-0 defeat wasn't being mercilessly bullied that week? How can you judge their frame of mind and how they will cope with that?

The truth is we can't. Another truth is mental health conditions are dramatically on the rise for multiple reasons. So providing a safe environment for young people to develop in is crucial to the children's long term health.

The old school approach won't work as they haven't grown up in that world. My dad taught me to swim by chucking me in the deep end at a pool. It was terrifying but I swam. It worked, but that doesn't mean it works for everyone. Imagine now if that isn't a parent doing that but a school or a swimming club.

Imagine the phone call to the parent of the child who didn't cope with being thrown in at the deep end and instead drowned. There will always be at least one.

Imagine as a coach I go in hard on a lad who played poorly, called him out in front of all his mates and made him feel small and stupid. Who does that help? Maybe its the making of him, maybe he uses it as fuel to grow and prove me wrong. Or maybe it breaks him, maybe he is dealing with mental health issues and maybe that night he goes home and attempts to take his own life.

Pushing things to the extreme often brings out extreme reactions and they aren't always positive reactions.

As coaches we have to coach and manage kids who are growing up and having to cope with the world as it is now, not how it used to be. So old school techniques and ways of handling things can do more damage than good.

Most responsible coaches will ask parents to leave if they are becoming too vocal on the side lines. Especially if they have had specific training with the FA who make it clear that kids should not be pressured, bullied, or put under undue stress by coaching staff or spectators and that our responsibility lies with the wellbeing of the children taking part.

That's why I get so annoyed with top level professional managers who throw young players under the bus in press conferences. Just because they aren't children anymore it doesn't mean that they should be open humiliated in such a public way.

Regardless of what you think of Luke Shaw if Jose said the things he did about Shaw, about a 17 year old player then he would have broken his duty of care. Shaw was only a few years older and not necessarily significantly more mentally or emotionally mature.

12.) 20 Nov 2019
20 Nov 2019 17:21:11
I'm 32 Shappy. It was hardly a lifetime ago I was playing football. Fact is, two kids teams played a game of football and a man lost his job for winning. Utter nonsense.

Funny thing is, you don't like it when a football team beats another 27-0 but you're fine with someone with male DNA to fight a woman and that's "fair".

13.) 20 Nov 2019
20 Nov 2019 20:01:42
Shappy with your knowhow i'm amazed you coached any winning team😂😂😂.

{Ed002's Note - It was a typo Ken - what was meant was "whining team".}

14.) 20 Nov 2019
20 Nov 2019 20:07:40
It's all about fair play and inclusivity. So not that different.

With transgender people competing bin sport, all I'm saying is we don't currently know enough to automatically rule people out of competing.

15.) 21 Nov 2019
21 Nov 2019 01:16:07
Just to jump in a bit late to this discussion: correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that in Italy, in all levels of football, it is seen that if a team is dominating the game and the scoreboard is showing that, the winning team will not keep trying to score. I believe that includes international level and Serie A too. Therefore it is a cultural issue of what is seen as being right and wrong. Therefore, this coach has broken a cultural norm of Italian football, and this may be more key in the reasons for his sacking. Now I can read through this debate and I can see where all of you are coming from, but perhaps in Italy there are different things to consider. If I am correct in there is a cultural norm of not going for the jugular, then this could have a different impact on the youth. I am not entirely sure what that impact could be, but perhaps it may have a more serious meaning as it is going against what is acceptable and therefore more extreme in showing that they are trying to humiliate the other team. In addition, this breaking of the cultural norm could bring the team into disrepute in the eyes of Italians and could be a larger issue for the team. Anyway, it is an interesting debate!