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Team: Manchester United

Where from: Manchester

Favourite player: Eric the King

Best team moment: Is there any other?...."and Solskaer has won it!"

Interests: Football Boxing Business Travel Martial arts Tai Chi Qi Gong

Timezone: (GMT) Western Europe Time, London, Lisbon, Casablanca

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CheshireRed's rumours posts with other poster's replies to CheshireRed's rumours posts


05 Oct 2020 22:10:08
Update. No deals for CB. De laurentis sporting director only one to show moderte interest but an unattractive deal structure.

Expect a move for upamecano IF and only if we put leipzig out of UCL before Jan window.

Told there may be 2 deals done in Jan, especially if CV keeps fans away until then.


1.) 05 Oct 2020 22:23:01
God, let us get over this window first will ya.

2.) 05 Oct 2020 22:34:55
WelshRedDevil. Sorry mate. Tried posting earlier that attempts were made as soon as it was clear Smalling deal would be done, to get a CB befofe deadline, 1. Upamwcano, 2. Skriniar (stupid, they knew terms already due to Tottenhams interest, then 3. Koulibaly) . Told the 2 and 3 were just deadline day if you don't ask you never know enquiries and were not hopeful. The offer for upamecano wasnt bad at all, though their loan and mandatory purchase wasnt well received given our group games in UCL.

However, the other player we will make an offer for in Jan is not o ly one some have craved in DM previously, but will be a massive upgrade on Fred and Matic, and has played 3 other positions for his currebt club. He's a proper player. Theayreq saving the Sancho money for Jan, if Dortmund get knockead out ofa UCL they MAY, only may, make another offer, but tactically have moved on until next summer. Out of interest, execs have laughed off the idea Sancho will be in higher demand next season. They expect CV to devastate transfer budgets as the crisis drags on until next summer. This despite projecting their own revenues to be down by £115m this financial year.

3.) 05 Oct 2020 22:56:52
Where is this update comes from guys?

4.) 05 Oct 2020 23:12:02
Cheshire the player to refer to is Saul and it is exciting. Give us more details.

5.) 05 Oct 2020 23:55:11
Hi Herrera. Yes its Saul. (Could have been SMS don't forget) . The source is an ex Utd player still employed by the club. Doesn't mean they will definitely get him, but the intent is to exploit the damage of CV through the winter in Spain and Germany as 2nd and 3rd waves come and create big damage to revenues. Utd actually used the strengths of the board for a change and their experience in economic risks and their contacts in investment banking and Government to forecast that the pain clubs will be in come January will see some vulnerable to selling. The expectation is no vaccine until next summer and a very damaging aborted attempt to bring fans back late November which will ramp up pressure on clubs with less commercial revenues outaide of ticket, matchday and merchandise sales. My personal opinion? Heard similar before in the window we didn't sign Mourinhos wanted transfers and those Jan transfers didn't happen, so it may be internal hot air designed to keep spirits high amongst the coaching staff. I think the CB will happen but I am doubtful the stars will align for Saul. Financially yes they might be in deep doodoo, but the Partey deal wasnt done at that point, which gives AM instant £45m cashflow, so unless they go out of UCL in group stages I just don't see the logic for Saul or AM to cash in before summer if at all.

6.) 05 Oct 2020 23:59:51
Its all balony. Why woukd we wait till smalling was going to try get a cb when we knew all window he wanted to leave?

The club don't have a plan hence the cavani purxhase and low balling for sancho fully knowing what they wanted

Pathetic, sick of the excuses now. No ambition to get back to the top.

7.) 06 Oct 2020 00:20:31
Cheshire i didn't want details, only that the update is from you, i believe you anyway, you have no reason to lie. I appreciate that you gave a detailed update but that seems bad. I mean the thing about vaccine, I thought we would have it until December.

8.) 06 Oct 2020 01:33:50

All clubs do business differently, Chelsea bought first, expecting Rudiger and Palmieri to go, for example, that didn't happen. Utd operate on the basis they don't take chances on incoming until outgoings are solid. i'm as frustrated as you are but they got Telles for £7m less than Porto demanded and they got £7m more than Roma were offering even this Saturday for smalling. can't magic money out of nowhere whilst there isn't the ability to generate more revenues and lossea are mounting. that's £14m.

They also offered £100m total for Sancho, during a C.V. He's Dortmunds player, ita their choice but to buckle? Well they'd still have been vilified.

At least they showed walk away, plus they didn't settle for anything less than a sensible plan, loan deal that didn't come off. Ask any multi millionaire, the balls to walk away after taking every chance to do a deal is always better than a deal you regret, not just in isolation but for the precedent it sets.

Cant complain in the same breath that we alwaya end up stumping up or settling for low ball offers for pur own players and then when we do the exact opposite we still moan because we changed the rhetoric.

Ive said beforebwe have waloed qway from 7 bad deals in the last 4 windows. Yet no one noticed because its easier to just be negative, and the media fuels the hysteria. Careful analysis shows far more resilience.

I don't see anyone slagging Liverpool. off for lowballing aouthampton, then not only grovelling but also stumping up £75m (£15m more than they could have had Van Dyke for) . The difference being Van Dyke shoawd incredible quakity afterwards, whereas Slabhead hasn't. that's as much luck than judgment. What if Klopp had got Draxler ibstead of Mane or Brandt instead of Salah, both his 1st cboices missed and ebded up with 2nd and 3ed chpice respectively. Lick will always play a part in any recruitment.

Jve hired some worldies on paper who turnwd out couldn't run a bath and had no common sense and also found diamonds in lower ranks who are now trusted right hand men and women, but not intentional, just pure luck. All were unintentionally good or bad and not as planned.

All I am saying is there is no direct correlation between getting first choice signings and guaranteed success. don't you remember Batistuta, Salas, Kleivert, Gattuso, Verane, Gascoigne, Beardsley, Barnes, Shearer etc during Fergie years.

If we had signed Ronaldinho who literally didn't get on a plane we wouldn't have signed Ronaldo. I still remember the slating Fergie and the board got for letting that slip. Yet it just shows the randomness of the market, and all that can go wrong or right without intent.

Easy to forget the ones we lost when we were aucceasful, but very little has changed over the decades with transfers, other than the ridiculous power of agents largely thanks to the Bosman ruling.

As for your comments Herrera, I agree its bad, and especially after Ole apologised for using the word exploit prior to the window. what's going on in the world is a terrible tragedy and to be thinking of that approach does seem to be an alternative view to what was very good corporate behaviour during the early stages of CV by the club that is long forgotten, as was Wpodwards very early comments it wohkdnt be a normal window and 6 figure deals just were not realsitic.

How many on here as readers or posters can honwstly say that if he had walked away from Sancho early on, they would have applauded? Wohkd have said well doen for sticking to the plan of the man we want or nobody?

Even now when we could have easily signed Dembele or Sarr, or even Coman on owrmanent deals but only wanted a loan as we intend to atick to our original plan, where is thr praise or recognition for changed behaviours and a stronger identity that we won't overpay and we won't sell cheap either?

Romeros wife going nuts is the atory you heard, but did you actually hear the offer from Everton? Because they took the piss at the last minute and underestimated our resolve to change the identity of Utd in the transfer market. didn't you see ancelotti swearing blind they had no interest in a Romero last Saturday? Just to make an offer that was so bad, they paid more for a poor keeper from Roma who is nowehere near Romero standard. Watch that bite him in the arse later in the season.

So, would we criticise Utd if they weren't ruthless either? I tend to think I might. Its the way of business, whatever your business. Some win some lose in every scenario.

Not Utd to blame that the vaccine won't be around in anywhere near decent numbers until spring and its already known that antibodies last a maximum of 3 months, so this virus will be around for at least 2 more years before a vaccine that truly prevents rather than postpone is found, or at best expect to be vaccinated every 8 weeks.

Its going to get massively worse before there is light at the end of the tunnel. You can take that as absolute 100% nailed on fact. that's not a rumour, I am the source of that info. Directly. It's going to be a very difficult year at least untik same time in 2021, so try and be positive, what is to come is to come, so either decide to enjoy it, or decide to hate it, either way the same future is coming, just deoends how we choose to receive it and respond to it.

Que sera sera as we famously sing perhaps without really meaning it.

9.) 06 Oct 2020 07:02:20

I think you make a lot of valid points. However I have to disagree in the way we have handled Romero. Both on the field and off it we haven't don't justice to him. We should have facilitated a move away for him days and weeks ago once it became clear that both DDG and Deano were going to stay with us. If not a permanent move than at least a lab for him.


For the way he has carried himself and performed for us without ever letting us down, we have acted as classless selfish d! ckheads. And I don't think anyone can argue with that. On top of that we are keeping a player to not even be on the bench on a huge wage relative for GKs.

I hope we can find Romero a move away to countries with the transfer window still open (like Russia) . I feel disgusted at the lack of class and gratitude shown towards him by our club.

10.) 06 Oct 2020 07:09:15
*at least a loan for him

Bloody autocorrect.

{Ed047's Note - I thought it was odd offering him a dog! 😏🤣

11.) 06 Oct 2020 07:29:41
I am surprised you are here in the early hours already Ed047. I thought you would be Parteying away whole day today😂.

{Ed047's Note - 🤣 I’m waiting to see him play before I get overly excited but Tris does give me hope he’s going to be class!

12.) 06 Oct 2020 07:34:46
Cheshire, disagree regarding Romero.
What is the point of paying him nearly 100k a week when he is third choice and never going to play.

13.) 06 Oct 2020 08:37:01
I don't know how anyone can defend our handling of Romero.

14.) 06 Oct 2020 09:08:14
ED047, no pressure on ED001 there then lol.

{Ed047's Note - 🤣 he works best under pressure mate! That’s if we can get him to do any. 🤦‍♂️🤣

15.) 06 Oct 2020 09:20:23
No worries Cheshire, was only messing, nice to hear info.

16.) 06 Oct 2020 09:39:35
That is exactly why he writes the daily review first thing in the morning. 😜.

{Ed047's Note - yep and then straight back to bed mate! 🥱😴🤣

17.) 06 Oct 2020 10:40:16
Lads, Romero isn't doing all this for free. He's been handsomely rewarded for playing a few games here and there, hardly a slave. The club doesn't owe him anything. No other club came up with a decent offer for him, and after all the moaning I see on here about Utd getting their pants pulled down by other teams with regard to transfers, then that's fair enough for me. Hardly treating him in a disgusting manner.

18.) 06 Oct 2020 11:30:08
Nou, it's quite clear he's been fed lies.

From being our cup goalkeeper only to be dropped in the latter stages, to being told he can move.

The club have absolutely no reason to keep hold of him.

Like you say, he's paid handsomely, so why not get those wages off the books for a 3rd choice who will likely make no senior appearances this season?

19.) 06 Oct 2020 13:14:53
Fantastic post Cheshire.

20.) 06 Oct 2020 11:42:48
Interesting post CheshireRed. Thanks.

21.) 06 Oct 2020 11:45:09
But for the typos that was an interesting read Cheshire.

22.) 06 Oct 2020 13:31:09
Noucamp. We do owe him something. All employers owe their staff something. Horrible statement.
All empires deserve to be treated with respect and with dignity.
He feels he has not been. If any employee feels like that in any company and can prove it then the company will be held accountable.
As an employer united do owe all employees something.
What is the world coming to if people think paying someone ends the responsibility to employees.

23.) 06 Oct 2020 14:05:28
spot on ken.

he should have been allowed to move when henderson signed his contract,

rom always acts professional and he's to good of a keeper to be 3rd choice.

24.) 06 Oct 2020 14:28:34
I thought they were only transient employees to you, Ken? And how do you know what Romero thinks about the whole thing? He might be happy enough, you've no idea. And no lectures on horrible comments about employees, please - I seem to remember a pretty nasty comment to Tony when he'd lost his job.

25.) 06 Oct 2020 14:46:43
Sorry Cheshire. I think you been playing Football Manager. Do you honestly think the Glazers, Ed and Co will invest their money into the club. If we sell someone then maybe but they can't even do that properly.

No chance. It be the same old same, we tried but they were demanding too much money for him.

26.) 06 Oct 2020 14:46:09
Interesting posts, Cheshire. Good read that.

27.) 06 Oct 2020 15:04:27
Find it. no nasty comment from me noucamp towards ajh. He is also not my employee
All employees are transient but have rights and employees have a responsibility towards them.
He is not happy if you have read the comments attributed to his wife and agent.

28.) 06 Oct 2020 15:05:16
Find the nasty comment noucamp please.

29.) 06 Oct 2020 15:16:21
I don't know how to search, but it was along the lines of basically dry your eyes. You can ask him - he didn't think too much of it at the time, as did a few of us. I'm sure he'll remember.

30.) 06 Oct 2020 15:16:30
Whats he not happy about? He signed a contract.

31.) 06 Oct 2020 15:43:24
You don't know how to search? 😂😂 try the search function at the top of the page. I didn't post any such thing. But sure you just make stuff up if it suits you. Absolute thrash.

32.) 06 Oct 2020 16:20:10
Aye, I must have imagined it, Ken. Tony must have as well. Silly me. I don't know why I would have thought something like that, especially when you're usually such a polite, pleasant poster, and in no way belligerent whatsoever 😂.

33.) 06 Oct 2020 16:36:09
The sexual tension between ken and Noucamp99 is too much for this page to handle🤣. You guys should get a room😂😉.

34.) 06 Oct 2020 16:55:25
I can be very belligerent at times Stephen. No mite than your Good self
But don't accuse me of words i didn't use.

35.) 06 Oct 2020 16:58:14
When you're married as long as I am Deeps, and hitting 50, beggars can't be choosers 😂.

36.) 06 Oct 2020 17:14:45
My view of Romero? Its a business. I totally agree about obligations to look after employees, and also their commitment to employers. But that's exactly the point.

Footballers get rights that most people, especially during this time in the world, can only dream of, not ONLY financially, but stability and contractually. Having a contract, that neither party can break? So the club have to pay wages to those they know they want to move on.

But frankly, when I compare their 'employee' situation as players, I have little sympathy compared to the the rest of society, with millions losing their jobs. Their future was 100% safe. Almost exclusively across any industry.

But I really do also sympathise deeply with clubs. Not just Utd but all clubs. Saddled with no choice but to keep their most expensive people no matter whether fit for work or otherwise, or even who have proven to be rubbish value for money and you prefer tonget rid, but saddled with your mistake or a change in direction that makes them unsuitable for the future.

That despite your revenues being absolutely decimated. Loyalty cuts both ways if we want to see the employee as a victim in isolation, almost villifying the club for enslaving them? Come on, pull the other one its got bells on it. Do me a favou4.

If this so called 'loyalty' and integrity cuts both ways, were they supporting YOUR club with integrity by saying we are all in this together, let's share the pain, here's 30 or 40% of my wages back? Just because Utd didn't ask is irrelevant. That was a conscious ethical decision of a business, so don't try telling me know we gave people a rough ride.

The club were very clear that they no longer wanted some players and were happy for them to leave. That doesn't mean freeing a slave as some are moulding the rhetoric. It means if the terms are met.

We were clear from February that the club wanted €20m for Dmalling agfer originally expecting €25m. But we were not going to sell him cheap as an asset that conversely was still being paid part of his wage by Utd.

So lwt me pose a question. You own a car. And buy a new one

You still have to tax, MOT and insure as well as pay for the car on finance youve borrowed. Even if youve finished paying, it has a value

Someone comes and says well it work £6k but we will give you £1.8k because you don't need it, you will rarely drive it. How many woukd take the offer? Even if you knew you mjght wait 11 weeks and then have a chance to trst the market again. More context.

You're actually a dealer in cars with only specific time to sell. You know you have to balance your books and no one is paying proper money for cars. Do you take any silly offer? Knowibg that the sale would be public and would create an expectation amongst other buyers that your assets vould be bought for a thirs of their price? Would you really sell? No matter what the commercial logic?

The situation with Romero was, he was priced to sell, no one came close. 3 teams were interested but went elsewhere. Is that Utd to blame?

So he now gets to stay on his huge salary when going elsewhere required him to take a huge drop? I have sympathy for many people during this C.V. from all walks of life, but to claim footballers in any situation have had a rough ride is frankly ridiculous and as for Mrs Romero?

She is lucky people are less switched on to reality than a few hundred years ago in France, because how her comments haven't been interpreted as being the Marie Antoinette of Manchester and keyboard warrioring let them eat cake is frankly beyond me.

Perhaps she should take a trip out with Marcus to a local food bank before she reiterates how terribky her husband is being treated right now!

37.) 06 Oct 2020 18:41:12
Another good post, Cheshire. You should post more often, mate. You might have Shaps and DLIB worried, tho, with the length of your posts.

38.) 06 Oct 2020 19:29:54
Cheshire red couple of interesting post there.

39.) 07 Oct 2020 14:24:00
I am only offering an alternative opinion on the non emotional commercial realities. I cannot stand social media because of the hysteria.

I love reading posts here because even the negatives, you know come from the right sense of desire and shared view we want our team to succeed and to be Champions.

But here is the reality. Utd have not cut jobs in ANY area of the club, even match day despite ZERO revenues. Do we not care about those employees, who cost almost £40m a year? Are they not a part of us? They have donated millions to local communities, OUR communities.

And all I hear is champagne socialists like Gary Neville talking rubbish about the one piece of business we didn't do. I notice he doesn't slag managers off anymore after being one. Perhaps he should be try being the Chairman or a director of an entity as massive as Utd before he claims the high ground. Really bugs me.

Some commercial realities would be more constructive. We are literally playing into our competitors hands by dragging down the enthusiasm, belief and respect for ourselves. At this stage we seriosuly risk being Liverpool of the 90s, noughties and 10s!

40.) 08 Oct 2020 00:34:19
I'm amazed that decent offers didn't materialise for a keeper of Romero's quality and experience. It might actually work out better for him and the club for others to understand that if they want him they have to make better offers to both parties. Good luck to the guy but business is business and I don't feel too sorry for him in his gilded cage.

41.) 08 Oct 2020 14:37:11
Cheshire because i didn't understand this. Did we donated millions to local communities as a club? Because that's fantastic and that's what i want for my club. I want to stand with employees and community . Arsenal buyed a fantastic player in Partey for a lot of money and the same day wanted to fire the mascot i think. I would prefer to fire none and to stand with our people (employees) and community even if that costs us a transfer. That would make me very proud and no player can make me feel so happy.

42.) 08 Oct 2020 23:44:27
Herrera. Yes we did.

We cane out in early March with a £1m donation to the NHS fund. We also made all our infrastructure available to the Government and NHS. Our medical facilities were used by NHS rught upto reintroducing football again and throughout the summer.

We didn't furlough staff, made further contributions of £4m through the foundation, set up sports clubs for parents who wanted to work for their kids to attend, we fed them and in many cases clothed them for those who had no kits.

Our non furloughed staff were deployed to support local charities, foodbanks and made drops for people who were vulnerable.

Our facilities and maintenance staff supported revising some public builds and offer logistics supoort for setting up NHS Nightingale Manchester.

None of this was reported, firstly because we didn't blast it all over social media, but it was known by the local authorities throughout GM, Salford and Trafford. But also because that wasnt the point, it was just to be nice and make use of resources we were not using ourselves.

The main reason you didn't hear? Well, how many media outlets do you know make their ratings through good news?

43.) 09 Oct 2020 00:11:39
did we not get romero on a free.

44.) 09 Oct 2020 01:36:49
Cheshire thanks you took time to replay, i appreciate that. I am very proud for my team.
Everyone has his own opinion but i always believed that Glazers aren't the devils some people think they are. They are just businessmen but i think in comparison to others they are more human and they showed us again, i think some years ago they refused to sell stadiums name to coca cola too rejecting hundreds of millions.
I have the same opinion for Woodward too. I have sympathy for him, its not his money to spend, he is not the one to deside which player to buy and he is not the one negotiating the transfers. Yet people turn to him every time a transfer falls. They always want someone to blame and because of his "stupid" face and that he is the one we see more often he is the easy target.
I think Woody makes a lot of mistakes and the first one is that he doesn't hire football people to run our football part, he is showing some arrogance. But i think he always had big plans for the team.
People blamed him for the "we can make thing in the transfer market etc", he had no reason to do this and maybe costs us because teams knew we had bid pocket but that showed a will, intentions. And i always believed that he has the intention to make us big again and i always believed that he entertains a marquee sighning more than fans because of his love for the team and his arrogance. I don't think he likes to be our failed vise president who can't close the deals as people day. And these words weren't empty words, we broke so many transfer records after that and my unpopular opinion is that, until some time ago, we weren't pinny pinching but instead we were happy to pay whatever it takes to bring good players and big names. that's what we tried to change in last 2-3 windows.
Personally the club (including Woodward) makes me happy and proud, especially after your comments. I only wish they hire a top director of football and give him the free run to make us a football force again because no matter how i like Woodward and co (at least i don't have any problem and don't blame him even for the weather 😂) they must make some good footballing desicions. Cheers.

45.) 09 Oct 2020 21:12:56
I am not an in the know as such but I do work in sports conferencing and hear things from people associated with United and other clubs now and again. In terms of United I can share here some things that might surprise people a bit based on some conversations I’ve been around. It won’t be liked but I think it should be said.

The recent stories about the dressing room problems are true, but not in their detail. You’ll notice the constant interviews and chats with Ole and people associated with the club Where they talk about the need for characters in the club. We have a big problem with that and it’s not the people you would necessarily expect. Pogba has caused issues with his on off determination to leave the club and his lack of performances on the pitch but it’s actually Rashford who’s causing big problems.

Apparently with the emergence of Greenwood he’s not happy, and constantly threatens to leave unless he’s the number 9. Greenwood says the same. Rashford has painted a very good picture of himself in the media with his fighting for vulnerable kids campaign but it’s run entirely by his new off the field agents roknation. It apparently annoys a lot of the players as although it’s a good cause it’s thought that he’s pretty disingenuous in using the clubs profile to create a Public image for himself and uses it as leverage to force the clubs hand into giving him what he wants. It’s widely acknowledged that he wasn’t actually injured during the last international break that he wasn’t actually injured but pulled out due to Greenwood being called up as Kane’s deputy. We saw that he doubled down on his campaigning instead.

There are also problems with getting Greenwood to apply himself in training and apparently there is a maturity problem too.

Rashford doesn’t get on well with Greenwood or Martial.

I can’t remember which game it was personally but there was a game towards the end of last season where Martial and Greenwood combined really well for Greenwood to score. The camera panned across to Ole and he was absolutely furious in his seat. Why? Because Rashford turned his back and looked disappointed when the two of them scored this great goal (look at the replay of the goal it’s a really good insight into the environment) . Anyway, PSG we’re suggesting to Rashford that he could replace Mbappe at the head of their front three if Mbappe moves to Real Madrid and apparently due to the fuss this situation is creating we’ve agreed with Rashford that we’ll allow that next year. The club are angry because they feel Martial is clearly showing he’s the better number 9 and that PSG should prioritise him over Rashford, especially given he’s French and Parisian, but PSG see the situation in taking Rashford as a way to weaken Uniteds identity of focusing on younger local players.

There seems to be a resignation within the club that we can’t keep both Greenwood and Rashford happy given they both want to be the 9. There’s wide spread agreement that Rashford is better as a wide forward both from the club and in the England set up but he can’t stand the idea of not being the point man.

You’ll have noticed many interviews (BT sport
YouTube FYI ( with past players ie the Co92 with Rashford to try and massage the situation but they’re all very angry with him about the way he’s behaving and you can sort of pick up on it in those interviews.

Anyway, nothing in the future is set in stone so I guess we’ll wait and see.

{Ed025's Note - a very interesting read that prodigal, i dont know how true it is of course but i will be certainly keeping my eye on it mate..

46.) 09 Oct 2020 22:22:50
I believe this . Maybe i wanted too because i believe the same. Rashford playing like someone killed his mother, no joy at all, not the same passion. I noticed against Tottenham a highlight (we had only 3-4 half decent chances so its easy to remember) which Rashford passed to Greenwood and although the better and obvious choice was to play one two, Mason desided to make a bad shoot outside the box. There is an attitude problem, i don't and i can't know the details but there is a problem.

47.) 09 Oct 2020 22:32:43
Prodigal maybe you mean against Ham. Because it was a wonderfull goal that Mason and Martial compined and Greenwood scored.

48.) 09 Oct 2020 23:20:03
Yeah ithey called it hearsay about Rashford and Greenwood but you can clearly see it now when you look back. Though as you pointed out from the Tottenham match it seems like Greenwood could now be the one acting out against Rashford, on the pitch at least. You have to feel that this wouldn’t happen if we had more proper leaders on the pitch like Keane, Robbo etc.

49.) 10 Oct 2020 11:23:13
Really interesting post prodigal. Quite sad to read. I suppose we all like to imagine that the squad are all best mates and likeable people but that's not how real life works. Shame they can't jointly appreciate their success on the pitch though.



17 Sep 2020 19:51:05
Regretably we did not, as I had been told, pretty reliably, Reguilon has apparently gone to Spurs. I don't like relaying info unless I trust it, despite this being a rumours site and I rarely post.

As I understand it Zidane had been absolute that he didn't want the player and wanted gim sold to generate funds. He also believes he has good enough options. The deal was all agreed, but then Perez via another director offered him to Spurs as they wanted the buy back and spurs took the bait.

Its a terrible deal and very short term. In effect Spurs have paid €30m during a C.V. with an ability for RM to buy anytime after summer 22 giving 3 months notice for €45m. So if Reguilon smashes it, Spurs must start from scratch in 2 years. Developed the player and get €15m in profit (less the cost of interest on funds to borrow) . If he bombs, Spurs have paid €7.5m per annum over his 4 year contract.

I do want to point out, that Utd walked away when the goalposts changed. They have done so several times in the past 2 years with 7 players they wanted where deals didn't meet the appetite of the club. There is only one exception to this. There is a possibility they also make an exception for Sancho, but this is less about the overall fee, but the type of triggers for add ons and the payment schedule. If those are negotiated the deal will happen, if not it won't.

I see a huge amount of criticism on here, which is natural as we would all love to treat it like Football Manager. But despite mistakes in the first 4 or 4 years, this group is settled into a focus and a plan and has learned a lot. They also are no longer driven by toxic fans in making their decisions.

Nothing they do will ever be seen as good enough. But for me anyway, we no longer sell even our unwanted on the cheap, a practice operated under Gill which only changed under Mourinho in year 1, and that too I applaud. Its about changing the perception of how and why we do transfer business in and out.


1.) 17 Sep 2020 20:20:38
I hope you are right Cheshire. I hope we are going through the transition of learning and good results will follow in time. I only know what I read as I don’t have any connections in the game and negativity gets more press thank when something is going partly right. I am not too fussed about us walking away from a very overpriced player in Sancho, but hopefully the club have alternates lined up and are not backing themselves into a corner. Also, we should have done a lot of our business early. Hopefully we will become better at this sooner rather than later.

2.) 17 Sep 2020 20:51:33
Cheshire they have had months to sort the above out with dortmund,

And we don't do tranfer business we try and mug teams off.

Woodward goes into a tranfer asking do they know who he is. The critisism of the club is justified the lack of footballing people doing the roles they should do is toxic.

If we had a club run the way it should by people who know what they are doing we wouldn't need to rant.

3.) 17 Sep 2020 21:18:11
Always think that the way we act in transfers must annoy clubs and that’s why we always seem to pay top dollar compared to others. Club officials talk, agents talk and I think our reputation proceeds us in a bad way before we even enter into discussions for players.

4.) 17 Sep 2020 21:25:49
My issue is that you don't agree personal terms with a player and don't follow through. It's make the club looks incompetent.

5.) 17 Sep 2020 22:05:44
no affence cheshire but i tend to believe ed02 when he says they are amateurs. i mean who can forget woodward paty line we can do things no other clubs can do. which basicay means him and his motley crew are balls up artists.

6.) 17 Sep 2020 22:12:28
Which 7 players Cheshire Red?

7.) 18 Sep 2020 08:39:49
Do agree with you Cheshire to some extent: they’ve clearly got a plan which involves buying quality young players for the right amount (like other big clubs do) and not be taken for mugs again.

I believe they are planning for a title challenge in 2/ 3 years time, when Liverpool and City have passed their peaks, making sure they’re collecting class youngsters in preparation for that as well as blooding Unser 24s to step up such as Mengi, Hannibal, Garner, Shoretire etc. (I’m also hoping they get Benoit Badashille to add to this future team)

However in the meantime they need to stay in the top 4 which looks tougher given all other teams strengthening. They look short of quality squad depth and need options on the RW (I’d get Brooks and Sarr) as well as a CB (I’d go all out to get Upemecano now) plus the issue of selling unwanted players.

Tbh, I know they’re amateurs compared to the lady at Chelsea but they seem to have a plan. BUT they seem awful at getting rid of players who will never see the first team again and I think there’s a communication backlog in the management chain which prevents them acting quickly and decisively, thus a a D of F needed to grease the wheels.

8.) 18 Sep 2020 09:32:56
I don't understand why anyone praises the "not selling our unwanted on the cheap" policy.

Now, with a player like Lukaku, in the prime of his career and a very good player, who just doesn't fit our style, ok. You want to recoup as much as you can on one like this.

But players like Smalling etc? Totally different. Holding out for this marginally higher fee makes the club look greedy, incompetent, and like they have no respect for players who have given us most of their career.

We used to let these kind of players go fairly cheap. That was a GOOD policy. It let us move on players on large wages and get them off the wage bill. It also improved our image among players, because it told them that we valued their years of service.

Our current policy makes it look like we don't value the years of service, and it is costing us money, because we aren't getting a higher fee, we're just not getting anything while we continue to pay high wages to a player we don't want any more.

9.) 18 Sep 2020 11:11:15
In Reguilon's case, I really wanted us to sign him up.
But we are right to move on if Madrid wanted any sort of buy-back clause.

However, Romano did mention that United didn't meet Real's valuation of 30m.



12 Sep 2020 17:13:53
Apparently our path to Sergio Reguilon has become a little more straightforward.

Sevilla are expected to sign Marcos Acuna from Sporting Lisbon for around €10m, €8m upfront and €2m in add ons.

They were quoted €3m to loan Reguilon again. His wages are almost €1m euros higher than Acuna.

So they would pay net €4m more for a permanent 4 year contract and andecent player, linked with Juve and Bayern 2 or 3 years back

There are also talks coming from Madrid that Real are prepared to remove their demand for a buy back, but are still trying to get €30m package for a player they don't want. Utd won't go above €20m currently so not exactly nailed on, but possibly more likely as no loan option exists as an alternative.


1.) 12 Sep 2020 17:50:20
25mill would be a great deal and a compromise for both sides. Problem is we probably won’t move from our offer and miss out.

2.) 12 Sep 2020 18:50:01
With Sevilla signing another player and no longer pursuing the player on loan or in a permanent deal the options for Real Madrid have reduced.

Their preference was for a loan back to Sevilla.

Now it looks like that option has gone. We are the only serious interest left, Spurs maybe but they need to raise funds first.

I'd say Madrid's options as it stands are probably sell him to us for between €25-30m without a buy back clause, or sell him to Spurs for €18-20m with a buy back clause.

Unless another buyer/ loan club step forward.

My gut says he'll be a United player before the end of the window.

3.) 12 Sep 2020 19:53:59
Hope your right shappy, I have to admit that uniteds transfer policy has me very frustrated, trying not to be but it has. Would have liked signings in to integrate and train with the squad but that ship has now sailed. Big few weeks coming up I hope they deliver.

4.) 12 Sep 2020 22:17:29
I am told the player wants Champions League Shappy and sees Utd as having a project to drive his ambitions to be a regular in the Spanish National team.

As you say, we could get the deal done quickly were we to up our overall offer.

That's unlikely currently but may chnage if we can move at least one player out on a permanent deal.



10 Jun 2017 21:09:28
Utd official account just announced Lindelof signing for £35m, deal to be completed next week after medical.


1.) 10 Jun 2017 22:39:13
Hopefully followed by morata and it would be a good start to the window!




CheshireRed's banter posts with other poster's replies to CheshireRed's banter posts


19 Jan 2020 23:10:45
Totally disagree with the comments regarding Fernandes. Time to stop being held to ransom by deluded and greedy selling clubs.

Sports have to raise £40m, that's a matter of fact. They're in desperate financial trouble and abusing UTDs interest and current position.

Very glad we haven't caved and expect us to walk away if the stand off continues. Its were drawn into negotiations by sporting at around £50m plus add ons then started taking the piss.

Sick of seeing them flagged off no matter what approach they take.

As for the fans on here. I would want you to be fans of mine. None of you have any trust or loyalty. No patience or empathy. You slagged them off when there was no long term plan. Now they're getting lambasted for having one, by Ed's as well as posters. Try being positive and supportive of people with plans and see what results they get before you share your 'expert's opinions.


1.) 19 Jan 2020 23:31:01
I agree you can't have it both ways, if you were complaining about the club paying preposterous money for players then this change of tact to not be held to ransom is fair enough.

The things that worries me more is that the club leaked last summer that they didn't want bruno fernandes because he gave the ball away too much.

What has changed in six months? Has he completely changed his game? I doubt that. Are we more comfortable having players who give the ball away a lot? I doubt. It just signals more random decision making from the club.

2.) 19 Jan 2020 23:33:20
That's interesting post Cheshire but completely laughable and without base or fact. So, as ed02 mentioned, the club asked for a certain price, we've gone in with a lower price. So that's business, they know we want him, we know we need him, and eventually we'll all settle on a price that's acceptable. That's business.
What long term plan did we have when Fergie retired? What plan do we have now to improve OT, Carrington, or genuinely improve the playing staff. What plan have we got to appoint a Dof, when it's been blatantly obvious that we've needed one for years.
What plan did we have when we destroyed our pay structure by offering Mr Sanchez £500k a week? Or spending silly money on Pogba, di Maria, when their hearts were clearly not at United.
What plan did we have when we allowed City to buy Aguero and Silva while we sat there doing nothing and fergie telling us "there's no value in the market".
Do me a favour, if people can't see what's been going on for the past 10 years, then we might as well give up.

3.) 19 Jan 2020 23:37:04
tell us o mighty one what plan do you see. seven years down the line and we are still no better . probably worse. so sporting should bow down because we are supposedly a bigger ciub and loose there best player. get real it is not fifa or whatever game you play on your ps4.

4.) 19 Jan 2020 23:58:06
Other clubs manage to get deals across the line without overspending. Additionally they seem to target attainable players which they can get across the line.

Uniteds new transfer policy is target plan A and if he isn't available so there is no value in the market. It's a ridiculous transfer policy as the club have got rid of fellaini, sanchez, Lukaku and Herrera without replacing them.

Numerous times the board has sold Solsjkaer down the river (I'm not his biggest fan btw but think he's been given a rough ride with this board) . They said they eouldnt get rid of Lukaku without a replacement, then there was no value in the market. They said they wouldn't sell ashley young as that would make the squad weaker and they want to get stronger. Both went, no replacements in.

Our forward line consists of rashford, martial, james and greenwood. One injury and they have no rotation. We knew that at the start of the year and did nothing about it.

Dont try justify board actions as supporting the club, they have been inept and left the squad in a mess. The club hasn't had a right winger in three seasons, the DOF promised 2 years ago is still yet to arrive and now in the last 3 transfer windows the club has brought in 3 players whilst getting rid of young, smalling, fellaini, Herrera and Sanchezjust off the top of my head.

5.) 20 Jan 2020 00:08:00
Oh man give it a rest, who are we just to turn up and demand a player for less than what the clubs value. Get real.

Put the money on the wood or shut up, all this posturing is embarrassing. The up to date time table of events has to stop.

Business needs to be done behind closed doors quietly, then the same scenarios don't keep getting played out over and over.

6.) 20 Jan 2020 00:29:43
as regards sporting taking the piss. if you looked on the rumours page ed02 tells you what is going on.

7.) 20 Jan 2020 08:55:30
I must admitt there's something about the Fernandes negotiations I don't understand.

If we paid £80mill for Maguire, £45 mill for AWB and £50 Mill for Fred, why o why is the club bulking at paying £60-£70 mill for Fernandes if he's exactly what we need?

For a 25 year old, top quality midfielder that sounds like a reasonable price. If Utd value him at just £40-£50 Mill then he can't be that good so why are we interested?

I imagine utd would want £75 mill + for Pogba and he's rubbish so what's the problem for paying the going rate for his replacement who would hopefully be an upgrade?



Jose Mourinho Needs More Time to get Manchester United Back to the Top

19 Mar 2018 17:34:22
{Ed's Note - CheshireRed has posted a new article entitled, Jose Mourinho Needs More Time to get Manchester United Back to the Top


1.) 19 Mar 2018 18:18:23
Cheshire not sure if you have posted before or post regularly but i would recommend posting more often because that was a very good read. Well balanced and thought out and has brought a nice fresh perspective so fair play mate.

I am only 23 so all i have known is the Sir Alex glory days. I am part of generation that has only known success. I grew up watching some amazing teams and not having anything really to compare it too. Sure my old man and grandfather would tell me and show me clips of greats such as Best, Charlton, Robson. But i never lived through or got to experience the pre glory days. So I really appreciate listening to posts from those who have lived through the times where United where not the brand they are today.

I will be the first to admit at times I can be very reactionary and impatient as for me United have always won. Second place is unacceptable and so the last 5 years have been a really hard watch for me. My old man and grandad, although unhappy with the current predicament, are much more objective and patient with the current process. They've have seen the rebuilds and understand that it does not happen over night.

Whilst I agree that the debacle under moyes and LVG has set us back years, I do think Jose really should be doing better with the squad at his disposal. The defence is poor but the attack is full of talented players. In this case, he should be playing to our strengths and that is what i think is frustrating the fans on here. I am prepared to give jose another year to really challenge for the title. He needs to remove the lazy, weak minded and soft players who do not have what it takes to wear the united shirt. Sometimes tough love is the best form of medicine and players like shaw have had their chances. Very talented but the guy cannot even keep in shape. However, next year their is no excuses.

I think the manager after jose will really reap the rewards of this squad. A jardim, tuchel or poch would be a very shrewd and exciting appointment to kick off the next stage of this post Fergie era/ nightmare (however you want to describe it) . I think things are not as bad as they seem but jose needs to respect the values and traditions of this club. I am just not sure he has or does.

2.) 19 Mar 2018 18:42:01
Top class post cheshire red. I agree with all of that. The board need to remain strong and ignore the hyberbole nonsense emanating from tje press and the sheep who follow their sensationalism. Jose is marmite so will always have his detrators i was one when he managed chelsea. But he is our manager now and has full support. With him at tje helm just now the club could not be in better hands. He knows what he is doing imo.

3.) 19 Mar 2018 19:05:22
Good read that. Jose knows what is needed he will get it right. 😆😆.

4.) 19 Mar 2018 19:06:56
Agreed Cheshire he definitely needs time, as he doesn’t have inifinite resources at his disposal. I think if we look at Chelsea’s model of managerial employment we can see the lack of stability and that it only breeds short burst of success, whereas we desire a dynasty similar to that of SAF.

5.) 19 Mar 2018 19:17:55
That's a brilliant post CheshireRed.

We must learn the lessons of the past, shown patience and understanding and maybe more than anything place our trust and faith in a proven winner.

6.) 19 Mar 2018 19:22:50
People need to remember we are not going to get another fergy.

{Ed025's Note - no ones saying you are jred, but selling your soul to the devil is not a great idea either mate..

7.) 19 Mar 2018 19:29:42
Devil's advocate which other top teams would.

Would Madrid Barcelona Munich .
Munich get a lot of plaudits for being a well run club they sacked ancelotti less that 18 months into the job after they got beat by PSG in the group stages . He had would the league the previous season.

8.) 19 Mar 2018 19:33:42
We are not going to get an other fergy or a manager that will build a fergy type dynasty like mentioned above .
I also think there is no comparison between the club fergy took over and the club Jose has .

{Ed025's Note - your right jred this is nothing like any side that SAF had anything to do with mate...unfortunately..

9.) 19 Mar 2018 20:27:47
Good post Cheshire but I have to take issue with “it took SAF 7 years”. History is often rewritten but as someone who was going to every game I’d like to revisit your recollection. SAF took over in ‘86 and hauled us out of trouble that year. He then finished runners up the year after but realised there was something rotten that needed to be adddressed. We then had 2 dire seasons with some dodgy signings and the humiliation at Maine Rd. 1990 was the turning point and we started improving with the FA Cup win albeit the football was still patchy. We then won the Cup Wnners Cup in ‘91, the League Cup in ‘92 as well as finishing runners up in the League before finally selling the deal in ‘93. We played to win, with Wallace, then Sharpe, then Kanchelskis, then Giggs. It may have taken until ‘93 to win the League but it was a great ride from 1990 onwards. As you say SAF was a proven winner but I would argue he was still at the start of his career back then. Let’s also remember that after winning nothing in ‘95 some fans wanted him sacked, this after having done the double in ‘94 so fans were as fickle back then as they are now.

And so to Jose. It seems there are issues to address within the club and he is clearly tough enough to do that but to compare now to 1986 doesn’t wash for me. We were the archetypal sleeping giant back then whereas we are now a top team even if we do need some rebuilding. The main difference for me is that SAF was all about the team, Jose is all about Jose.

It boils down to this. Do you believe Jose is still a top coach who can build a team to challenge, or do you think he has lost his way and is behaving erratically? Do you believe we should be seeing more from the players we have or that they are paying to their maximum ability. Do you believe the constant public humiliation of a young player is justified, or bullying?

You pays your money, you makes your choice.

{Ed025's Note - fine post that AJH mate..

10.) 19 Mar 2018 20:40:27
That’s a great post AJH. I think I have to side with the view that Jose is too erratic and has lost his way. Football has moved on and he doesn’t seem to understand or be willing to adapt and change with times. If that is the case then he might get another year but I don’t expect it to a joyous or successful one.

11.) 19 Mar 2018 21:46:26
Very nice post Cheshire red. really enjoyed that. A bit of perspective. Again i'd also like to point to andy mittens most recent article where he also brings a lot of perspective.

We have to give this time and let Jose see this through. I do feel we will get there but there will be many splits, fights, opinions along the way.

12.) 19 Mar 2018 21:59:14
Good post, Tony. Unfortunately José, with his unforgiveable press-conference, seems to have convinced some fans that we are indeed a small club who are lucky to have him, rather than the other way round.

13.) 20 Mar 2018 00:53:07
Angel I’m a massive fan of Andy mitten he is one of my favourite journalists. Always puts things into perspective when emotions get the better of me.



12 Feb 2018 20:11:23
I see Leroy Sane has made an amazing and spectacular recovery 5 weeks early. as predicted by various observers here at the time of Peps amazing doctors and their 'speedy cures!

He's in the wrong career that boy. medical genius.


1.) 12 Feb 2018 21:21:37
Wonder if Dr Cugat will get a PL winners medal.

2.) 13 Feb 2018 10:12:04
Protein shakes do work well.



22 Aug 2017 22:05:54
Neymar deal comments miss the mark. You have to consider the accountibg principals a club applies to an asset. For example the club can choose to write down their acquired asset over the period of contract (5 or 6 years in Neymars case) and with increased sales income (which can be brought forward, ) image rights applied to sponsorship deals offsetting costs such as being an ambassador for the world cup Qatar host in 2022 and the promotional lead up years plus taking large wages like zlaran off their books and moving other players on it really isn't that hard for a CFO or the Head of Legal to construct a way of complying with principals that do allow a club to make a specific maximum loss over a 3 year period.


1.) 23 Aug 2017 09:19:37
I don't think write downs count for FFP. In simple terms did they spend x% more than they generated in a 3 year period. The fee for Neymar is almost £200M and it looks like Mbappe might be the same. There is no creative accounting that allows PSG to generate income to cover those numbers. They will either have to sell loads of players (doubtful) or accept whatever punishment comes - usually a fine which for them is not an issue.

2.) 25 Aug 2017 07:27:57
Ive posted an explanation of how clubs accoubt for FFP on youtube. Have a look and it may aimplify it. You can dobwhatever you loke as a business as long as you comply with legislation. I run sevwral businesses and we operate similar principles on tax and finance. Even easier if all your assets are governmwnt owned as arw the Qataris. I work wirh the soverign wealth funds a lot. Its srandard practice in middle east to subsidise and grow assets. Its practically their entire business model across the board, not just in sport.



17 Jun 2017 03:14:05
Hi All

Just my opinion on De Gea.

I think this is a crossroads moment for him where he will either be at Utd for life or move on.

I am a big fan of his and will not forget how important a player he was for us during Moyrs disastrous reign or for Van Haal either.

That said, as a business owner I am all too aware of having someone in my team who whilst vital at one stage needs to be measured subsequently against the good of the future of the business, with stability and f.


1.) 17 Jun 2017 19:36:18
I think every UTD fan knows his worth and what he means to the team, but I think you cannot underestimate he is spanish, his girlfriend and family live in Spain, its got to be a huge wrench for him to be away from them.

If Madrid sign donnamurra then yes we can keep him, maybe 3 years til Barcelona come calling maybe longer , but there is still a chance we can lose him this summer I wouldn't bet against it unfortunately.




CheshireRed's rumour replies


Click To View This Thread

09 Oct 2020 10:30:48
Cheers Ed, and I do like Shappys posts, takes his time to explore facts on lot ps the points he makes deapite his passion. don't always agree with his posts, but I do like the varied opinions on here.

Thanks to the otehr lads too, appreciate being heard even if not agreed with.

Prodigal makes a good point too. People may not remember many years ago Real Madrid were on the verge of administration, bailed out to the tune of hundreds of millions of Euros. In theory central government can use state aid for certain types of club structure, but only where they are operated as non profits with cooperative style membership structures. I would have to ask a mate who specialises in that, but I don't at first glance think Dortmund come under those rules as they only have 46% fan based ownership, the rest are corproate shareholders. None own more than 9% but they do still fall unfer rules of 'commerce'. However l, Madrid and Barcelona? Well they would qualify.

More worrying would be the power of regional or local government where the rules are far more circumspect on 'local economic and social value'. Interest free loans, gifts of land worth hundreds of millions, or even special purpose vehicles for shared investments are prefectly legal and, in fact, absolutely normal practice throughout the world, not just the EU. Everton wouldn't be building a new stadium without the gifting of the land as well as commitment of rates reductions, tax breaks and promise investment in transport routes and surrounding infrastruture. No surprise their chairman suddenly found his cash pockets immediately after that decision, leading to him splashing £130m on players even before ancellotti arrived.

Dont be too despondent though. Expect Trafford and Salford to do exactly that when Utd are ready to take the plunge. I estimate 3 to 5 years more of quietly buying up the land before a complete overhaul of plans and New Trafford vision being proposed.

Plus again the board are far from stupid on all these rules across EU or Brexit. I'm told we only bought a player at the time we did for exCtly the reason that after Brexit the deal wouldnhave oresented significantly greater problems relating to both EU and UK rules.

I have seen a lot said lately about Ole on here. I have, as usual I think, a different narrative but I want to do more historic checking to make sure I am not misremembering lots of stories of yesteryear, or indeed soeaking out of turn.

I last saw Ole at his hotel in Stockholm when we won the Europa League. Half the 99 team and around 40 other ex players were there too, all staying at the hotel. I will tell the story when I post.

Prior to him leaving the UK I knew him as a player. Knew him well.

I read opinions on here and all I can say is people just do not know the person they're talking about. He wasn't known as the baby faced assassin for nothing. He has ice in his blood and is a ruthless winner, not often loses it, but you would not want to be around when he did.

He was Roy's closest mate as a player for a reason. But he has control, and a sharp mind. But they share the same drive and intolerance of anything less than 100%

He isnt, and doesn't pretend to be a master tactician. Nor is he interested in being. He will employ people he trusts the judgment of for that, and he won't hesistate if he thinks he has picked the wrong person or there is someone better.

I would be interested to hear some of the views of posters who were around as I was during the pre Fergie years, as well as each of the 3 team rebuils he went through, aimply to see who they thoight was the tactician under Fergie's tenure

I will read with interest.




Click To View This Thread

08 Oct 2020 23:44:27
Herrera. Yes we did.

We cane out in early March with a £1m donation to the NHS fund. We also made all our infrastructure available to the Government and NHS. Our medical facilities were used by NHS rught upto reintroducing football again and throughout the summer.

We didn't furlough staff, made further contributions of £4m through the foundation, set up sports clubs for parents who wanted to work for their kids to attend, we fed them and in many cases clothed them for those who had no kits.

Our non furloughed staff were deployed to support local charities, foodbanks and made drops for people who were vulnerable.

Our facilities and maintenance staff supported revising some public builds and offer logistics supoort for setting up NHS Nightingale Manchester.

None of this was reported, firstly because we didn't blast it all over social media, but it was known by the local authorities throughout GM, Salford and Trafford. But also because that wasnt the point, it was just to be nice and make use of resources we were not using ourselves.

The main reason you didn't hear? Well, how many media outlets do you know make their ratings through good news?




Click To View This Thread

07 Oct 2020 22:57:40
Sorry Ed0047, wasnt meant to be a rant, but I just despair of terrible football analysis aligned to commercials where Utd by being commercially sound and managing risk are painted as the ones not to get a 'simple' deal over the line, saying Dortmund were frustrated by Utd not basically doing what benefited Dortmund but put Utd at risk and having been messed around and wronged in some way.

The reality is in my view very different. Dortmunds President was invisible during the summer so people may not know he is an ex politician of German left wing politics, who are leading the anti lockdown protests in Germany despite being the junior party in a coilition. He is deluding himself that Germany can return to normal and work through C.V. instead of social restrictions, which is far more to do with his politics and his imterest as Dortmund president than it is relevant to the popular view of the electorate overall, where the CDU are the party in control of decisions. They're conservative, as in, more risk averse, more financially astute and responsible, and prefer to take pain be criticised if necessary and make unpopular decisions.

Its baffling that NONE of these factors were even touched on during what was not really a transfer saga, it was a massive difference of views on risk, economics and heathcare projections and how their respectivd Governments were liekly to influebce their ability to make money and function normally, between 2 sporting clubs deciding largely on their assessment of their own Government's approach to a C.V.

Dortmund are convinced they will be back to normal in mere months, led by a politician who opposes lockdown, Utd are run by 3 investment bankers, all qualified economists who have access to world class futurologists, political contacts and analysts.

Call me stupid, but trained economists and investment bankers seem a more reliable barometer of risks around finances than a political drum banger whos PERSONAL, not business values appear to be clouding the way they lead and manage their own club.

Ironically, one leader is massively popular with fans, because all is rosy and there is nothing to worry about, the other is despised for not mortgaging the ranch.

Who is more likely to be right?


{Ed047's Note - apologies Cheshire, feel free to say as much as you like, my comment was only a joke in relation to your post outdoing any of his which are normally associated with such length but you outstripped him and then some!

I enjoy reading your posts mate, they are spot on, as I’m pretty certain everyone else does.

So as they say, “fill your boots” and keep them coming! 😁👍🏼



Click To View This Thread

07 Oct 2020 20:34:06
That does make sense. But be careful guys, doesn't that suggest our board and manager are not as stupid or inept as they are painted in the media?

Planning for the future and repairing bad decisions? Whatever next, if we aren't careful we might just see plans to source the worlds beat prospects, loan out our talent and not lose them at the end of their deals, reintegrate the ones who shine, and get the ones who don't off our books for a nice little earner we can put into prooer investment in the stadium surrlunding infrastructure, scouting, player acquisitions and uograded training facilities.

Increasing the value of the asset? Having a plan staribg us inbthe fce but we are so busy whining we havebt won the keague we dobt notice?

What a ridiculous thought.

I wish the manager would come out and say whether he believes we should expect to win the league this year, or for the Board to say in advance of the transfer window what we should expect given there is a C.V. so we could show some faith rather than negativity and let the media turn us toxic again! OH, wait a minute.




Click To View This Thread

07 Oct 2020 20:27:08
I do indeed Herrera, however the concepts of lockdown are more in respect of restrictions.

One thing very misunderstood is statute. As in the LEGAL responsibilities of a Government. Take for example the legal demands upon the NHS. That is, First, Do no harm. that's a legally enforceable precedent that in essence means, do nothing as a statutory body that may harm citizens.

This in context is where the C.V. is misunderstood. It is also where 'activists' get to play out their agenda often through spin rather than truths.

Its also where democracy kicks in as both a counterbalance to the actions of Government can be challenged, both in free speech but also legally through the courts. Did you know for example, the LEGALITY of lockdown has been challenged twice and found to be not only legal, but proportionate, aligned with the view of experts and necessary actions of Government to protect not only the vulnerable as a lweal requirement, but to protect people from their own inexperienced or poor judgment or bad behaviour. isn't that the very foundation of ANY law or rule?

So when I say lockdown is here to stay, RedPaul, I mean in the context of the legal obligations of a Government first and foremost to protect its tax paying citizens (thats the contractual balance if you like) for the 'service we buy from our taxes'. In essence we devolve responsibility for managing society to a function of Governance, hence the word Government.

They must follow this law, which means doing what is required, crucially NOT what may just be popular. This extends in all forms of Governance, employers having legal teslonsibility for the Health and Safety of Employees. Same basic principles.

In turn if any disagreements between industry, the public, employer or employee bodies can challenge the legality of any decisions taken by Government.

Parliament regulates decisions taken and approves them. This week, parliament reapproved the rolling 90 day legislation for requiring businesses and individuals to follow social distancing and lockdown rules. That takes us to 2021 at the earliest.

There has also been time booked to hear thebsame request in January, and IT WILL, not might, WILL be approved.

The impact, for RedPauls benefit are going to become more, not less severe. There is a new bill going through to give emergency powers at local and national level to require ANy premises, public or private sector to be closed as a result of people not following the rules.

Now before you claim rebellion, just reflect. Would a Government realistically and logically deliberately impose measures it fully knows are going to be massively unpopular and economically damaging without due cause?

Is that logical? Does it make sense to you?

Does it make sense to make things even tougher, knowing it may cause civil unrest and disobedience?

So with C.V., look at the impact on the logistics of football.

Some countries, let's take Germany, have set 20% of capacity limits of bringing fans back in. Other restriction applies such as prioritising only ticket holders you can PROVE come from an area with less than 35 cases per 100k of populus. NO AWAY FANS ALLOWED, period, to restrict travel.

Further, the location of the club must meet that same standard. Right now, every single part of the UK with a premier team fails this test.

In the past week, so too does Germany, if they go another week (they review each fortnight), no more fans again. Germany as of Tuesday was at 35.1 per 100k across the entire country, but it ia rising not falling. Their benchmark is 35! In short, no more fans at all until it falls again. But testing is increasing, so the chance of that is doubtful. More tests, more chances of positives, so do the math.

Utd position. They are planning financially and logistically that fans will be allowed back in MARCH at the earliest. That will be in their quarterly financial statement to investors. That's the true position and the one which has driven their transfers.

They had that view from MAY onwards but legally didn't have to comment in their last financial statement as ALL fans were banned.

Yes they drew down on a £140m facility back in I think, June, but don't quote me on it, and had circa £90m at bank. But we still had staged payments to make on previous transfers at that stage and we had staff to pay knowing they were never going to work for another 3 months at best at that stage. We haven't spent it all, the money will either be returned or IF it isn't, then what might that allude to for January? So pay attention to the forthcomjng statement instead of Sky Splurts and Twatter. For the detail, no better source of the what's happening than our own Ed002. Sondont shoot that messenger.

There was, at that point, a worst case scenario of being back with fans in some type in October, with best case scenario of August. As we all know, that's changed dramatically. Not just here, but everywhere. Utd never bought into that rose coloured specs view, hence their red line on how much to pay but also, crucially, HOW to structure payments. As bad as we want a return to success, do you eant to be patient with a ling term plan, or do you want to put it ALL ON RED. Perhaps we should ask Leeds? Hindsight is a wonderful thing, no?

Track and trace is already proving in France and Germany that cases per 100k RISE in the areas after a football match.

Germany last week banned alcohol. Today Scotland will, partly to try and bring back large gathering events earlier.

All Governments are in new territory, with no roadmap for goodnl or bad decisions. All data is beibg measured to see what works and what doesn't. It's trial an error, and controlled by behaviours not of the sensible, but what I like to call the F@#&wit factor.

There is no doubt alcohol has great impact on social distancing. that's a world wide no brainer, you start off disciplined, then lose inhibitions and misbehave and do stuff you wouldn't do when sober.

Its a bloody nightmare, but it also makes sense. I can honestly say I am less in control after 5 or 6 stellas. I've done it myself. Despite ny sensible self telling me in advance to control my inebriated self. It just doesn't work. My alcohol infused self is an incompetent unreliable simpleton.

New habits are hard to form anyway, trying to maintain a new habit when pissed is something I am yet to master. I doubt I am alone.

So that's why I expect football to be on its arse. Even with fans allowed, matchday revenues greatest friend? Alcohol. Its just not going to happen. Ever tried queuing at any of OTs bars?

We all wanted Sancho at a decent price if we could afford it. But there are two sides to that also. Could Dortmund afford to keep him? Or for us not to buy him?

They lost Hakim back to Real and had to buy in the summer. They are the best supported team in Germany with the highest average attendances.

But they aren't allowed fans back in. Best case scenario for them? 16,000 fans per game from an average gate pf 81,000. That's massively damaging. From just missung 5 games at home, they LOST €12.5m euros.

They lose the ENTIRE €36.6M they generate from renting out siguna park as events are banned for the foreseeable. Despite having a net profit on transfers last year of €40m euros, that's less than HALF their net profit on trasnfers from the previous year. Overall they posted a net loss for that year of €49.7m. Despite only 5 GAMES revenues being lost. This summer window, their net profit on transfers was MINUS €46.3m. AND despite MAKING €40m on transfers.

Sustainable? So you lose €30m in gate receipts, €37m in asset income, carry forward a €49m loss into the season anyway and lose €46m in transfers from your summer net spend? Well you made €40m in transfers the year before and yet you STILL lost €49m. So in a C.V. year woth no fans no matchday revenues an €86m swing in profitability of your previous transfer business, what is your upcoming year looking like?

Thats without the downturn in TV rights, signed in June and worth €10m a year LESS to Dortmund than the previous contract. A final fun fact on that stat. The previous rights issue raised 85% MORE than the previous deal, this deal is 6% LESS than the current deal. Did clubs expect such a downturn in revenues from broadcasting?

In my personal opinion, commercially speaking, we were Dortmunds break even ticket for the upcoming season.
It will be an interesting few months to see how they equally to all other clubs, fare in such turbulent times.

So bearing in mind the general view of Utd's incompetence, one which I don't share, despite my Fan head saying so, my Supporter (google the definition, they're very different), I pose a question.

Would you rather, following the summer window and what is to come, be Man Utd after the window WITHOUT Sancho, or prefer to be Dortmund WITH Sancho right now?

Sadly we don't have the thumbs up or down button any longer, but I welcome other viewpoints on why we should have gone balls out to get something we ALL wanted, irrespective of the consequences.


{Ed047's Note - shappy, read this bad boy and weep! 😉🤣




CheshireRed's banter replies


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10 Oct 2020 01:55:37
I fully agree qoth ypu Brad that if Ole wanted the best of both worlds, support Harry yet protect the team, we should go 3 at the back, with shaw and wan bissaka, and I would put Willians and Telles as wing backs. Give Harry a really solid structure around him give the team a solid spine with matic ot the bottom of the diamond, with donny and either fred or mctom in the width with bruno at the point. i'd also have martial and greenwood aa the top two, rotaring with Cavani.

In my view Marcus needs some time out to find form, remrmsbrr his focus before his back injury and also to fpcus back on his football rather than beibg the Bono of Manchester. You've done well lad and brouggt some excellent results for the downtroddent during C.V., but Prodigal7 did a brilliant insight post that also kakes sesne on why his heads not there riggt now and needs to give it a wobble.

Think you're totally eiggt about harry though I am aure plenty disagree on what I think our best team is.

Oh and I realise I left Pogba out, that tit has had huge support from me, despite abuse I got on here, but you get plenty of rope from me, always. I genuinely hope you use the rope yo haul yourself up, but if you insist on wrapping it round your neck I will happily choke the life out of you.

Last chsnce saloon for me. He shouldbhave realised no one else wants him because he can be a lazy tit, fickle and takes stupid risks, he's a tusnel and glitter player, not one to create solidity or confidence.

The cherry on the icihg on the cake so to speak, whereas Utd right now haven't even started icing as the marzipan isn't dry.

He either gets his rubbish together kn thw sidelines (in my view for 5 games so he gets the message) OR, move him on.

I am pretty certain this was the plan anyway as I am aware of an intended January bid in Pogbas position, but I also think the club would've been happy to have 2 decent players for the same position, something Ole thinks will take him 3 more windows to get a squad he is happy with.

Pogbas problem is in his head he's a worldie, and has huge confidence, however he lacks the ability to be self critical and is genuinely unaware of the levels people see him fail to reach. He justbsint tough enough on himself, and is very resistant to criticism.

After plenty of chances, I woukd be writing him off if I were the board. Put it down to experience and be more vigilatn in future. To be fair I think they already are. His agent is a toxic prick qho is bad for football.

Even John Paul Getty, a famousky ruthless and despised businessman favoursed the saying, always makensure there is profit and benefit for all in any deal. Raiola is overly driven and aggressive and in fairly short time especially in a depressed market, qill soon find his style massively affects the enthusiasm clubs will have to deal with him.




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09 Oct 2020 14:31:12
Great post Brad. I do agree with you. But, there is a risk that after such a poor start, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

He is having a tough time mentally, thing is, I don't see it getting any easier until the new court case next year. Without knowing the lad it is difficult to say what is best.

That said, its a football team, so taking out the best of a bad bunch still leaves you vulnerable whilst ut also sends the wrong signals to keep someone playing badly in the team.

The popular view is always that a team should pick iteelf through form. That wohld be the best approach in my view too. Doesn't need to be seen as punishment, its a team sport and you play through proof you're ready not because of your fee or your status.




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08 Oct 2020 01:02:58
Great poat Daragh and interesting views from all. A little more 'critique' and a little less 'criticism' will go a long way.

Very much a balanced and cuo half full poat Daragh, though my one concern is the level of doubt shown to Ole.

Am I the only one who truly beliebes he is the right man for the job? A ruthless, externally calm but privately ruthless and uncompromising manager.

I have zero doubts, as in zero, that given the same time as Klopp, he will easily deliver success both domestically and in Europe.




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17 Apr 2020 16:44:41
Speaking purely from someone who works closely with the Government. I would astonished if the season were to be scrapped. There are far bigger issues at play in the UK. Its not a football or even a commercially driven decision.


{Ed002's Note - I don't know what you mean by "scrapped"; nor why you mention the Government or "bigger issues", or you last sentence which makes no sense at all. I am assuming you don't understand any of this.}



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01 Feb 2018 01:08:33
I won't hold my breath until we see you again then North East. It doesn't tale a genius to work out that being 2 wins behind us after a six pointer for you suggests that maths isn't your strong point when it comes to how frequently we lose, sorry loose as you say. Very confusing. I am sure you mean lose, a word I would have expected a spurs fan to not only be able to spell but also understand in context to assist in a spelling bee.

For example lose. context please. an astonishing ability to lose by coming third in a two horse race.

I am sure you have some talent. but the above skills and sadly banter are as unfamiliar to you as winning. Perhaps you could try hide and seek. something which you could become a world beater at if you can manage to sneak into your trophy room.