10 Dec 2015 16:58:23
My thought of the day.
Can you imagine the battering Sir Alex would have got on a site like this between 86 and 1990
Questions would have been asked and accusations made by the know it all folk that really know F all.
In 5 years we have won 1 trophy so we are back at the beginning of a new cycle expectation is high and rightly so but it takes time. I genuinely believe that if the likes of gcu jred mazerollojmb the beast were around in those late eighties they would be saying the same things about fergie at that time that they are now saying about lvg. The football was shit the spend was at record levels a lot of buys were duds initially. But the foundations were good. Nobody would have realised that looking in at that time.

1.) 10 Dec 2015
10 Dec 2015 17:14:12
Ken - It was a different time and situation the 70's and 80's were hardly like the 90's and 00's for Man Utd.

The game has evolved so much in such a short space of time. Do you really think LVG has it in him to make us a force again? Hand on heart.

Just because you had to eat porridge when you were poor it doesn't mean you have to eat it when you are rich!

2.) 10 Dec 2015
10 Dec 2015 17:35:41
ken
it was a very very different club back then we hadnt won the title for 20 odd year .
english clubs where banned out of europe so we couldn't get the top players .
its not even close to same situation.

3.) 10 Dec 2015
10 Dec 2015 18:14:02
Manu had not gotten to the standard it has now we do not want to go backward but ahead but truthfully I don't see where lvg is taking us right now.

4.) 10 Dec 2015
10 Dec 2015 18:15:25
Ken

Actually you are right. I recall a 5.1 drubbing at Maine Road in 89 and there were rumblings, phone calls and people grumbling in the ground. If this site had been around SAF would have been hung drawn and quartered.

It is true that things were different in the 70's and 80's, I lived through both decades as a fan so can compare. The game has evolved but the fact is back in 89 it was worse for us. Liverpool won everything which exacerbated our failings even more than now. City were so much a local Manchester underdog team often with local lads that when they beat us there was no hiding place.

However I recall one conversation with someone not long after that 5.1 game who said SAF was making the right changes behind the scenes. It turned out to be correct.

The thing is SAF was a good long term choice whereas LVG isn't.

5.) 10 Dec 2015
10 Dec 2015 18:18:30
🎣 there biting today.

6.) 10 Dec 2015
10 Dec 2015 19:09:36
Good post Ken. I was starting to lose faith in LVG but when you put it all into perspective and realise the job he was and obviously is still facing then we just have to stick with it as fans as we know he is going 2017 regardless. We just have to stay behind the club and that means the manager.

Going back all them years when we weren't winning we were still regarded as a massive club and albeit seriously underachieving. Fergie was given the time because it was a massive job and he turned it around with unprecedented success.

Fast forward to now, we have hit a serious wobble in the road and the club has been re organised in many ways, it's 18 months on and everyone is calling for the managers head, young players being heavily criticized. It's very easy to separate the fans who went through the bad years before fergie turned it around and the ones who were lucky enough to have grown up during the fergie years, who are now calling for LVGS head and heavily criticising our younger players. Spoilt is all it is.

7.) 10 Dec 2015
10 Dec 2015 19:19:45
Ken
I can't believe people are trying to compare lvg with fergy .
Why people feel the need to make excuses for someone who has been at the club a little over a year is beyond me but it's been going on since lvg joined the club .
I don't get why he is so many people's wet dream.
It's been excuse after excuse by people who are backtracking like mad now, it turns out nobody really wanted him.
The same people would of burned moyes on a bonfire for half of lvg failings.
Don't forget moyes gave nani a new contract which people are up in arms over still, can you imagine if he had agreed a 10mil loan fee and 300k a week for an injured striker or 60 mill and the highest wage in EPl history for a fancy argie that didn't want to play for United.
Making the past it Bastian the highest payed player in the epl suddenly looks a good deal.

Strange how so few had any sympathy for moyes but like to preach about supporting lvg.

8.) 10 Dec 2015
10 Dec 2015 19:27:14
Angel
Really?
Should all the fans of rallied around moyes?
Where the fans that called for the head of moyes after a couple of month and then screamed for his head once we never made top 4 for the first time in years not a tad spoilt.

Strange how so many think you should support the manager now.
Or is it a case of "everyone should support a manager I like but not one I don't "

9.) 10 Dec 2015
10 Dec 2015 21:35:48
My point was not to compare the 2 individuals, I'm not saying lvg can do what Sir Alex did, but the scenario is comparable in many ways. Both took over terrible squads that needed complete rebuilding.

In many ways the club needed rebuilding top to bottom as we are light years behind in our facilities, training methods and style of play. Fergie was also a 'dinosaur' using his man management skills to win and get the best out of the players, but those methods went out years ago.

So lvg was handed a suicide pass and is dealing with it. there will be more ups and downs before we get to the top again regardless of who the boss is. Because we were in a bigger mess than people realise, fergie's abilities papered over the cracks for far too long.

But we have a few resident experts here who know it all but my guess is none have played or managed at the top level so while they are entitled to their opinion for me those opinions carry no weight because they are nothing more than uneducated opinions on The matters on hand.

Yes there are pundits and ex-players saying similar things but Rio, scholes and the likes will never say anything other than it was perfect when we left. Lvg was handed a hospital pass and is doing his thing. He has done it before with some success. I am prepared to be a little more patient and urge others to be likewise. The modern day fan is hard to please.

10.) 10 Dec 2015
10 Dec 2015 22:16:47
Ken come on mate that is a shocking statement. The club has changed and evolved enormously between the timeframes you are trying to compare. That's like saying any major business in the world should set themselves the same standards to when they were a local corner shop to what they would now as a global chain.

Someone posted above folk were biting and I hope that was the intention of your post because if your are being serious you are massively, massively off the mark and missing many points.

11.) 11 Dec 2015
11 Dec 2015 07:08:49
What is shocking about Ken's statement?

Actually I am with a lot of Ken's last post, LVG did get the hospital pass. SAF let the team wane relying on his leadership ability and Moyes made everything far worse. The club as a whole were in a far worse state in 86, yet there are similarities on the pitch. The end of SAF tenure where he didn't strengthen and Moyes took the club into decline which meant we needed a short sharp shock, which I believe is why LVG was appointed. The difference is that SAF was a long term solution, lvg isn't.

I wonder how many people who comment on the difference between 86 and now we're actually around in 86?

{Ed001's Note - I am sorry but anyone comparing 86 to the current situation is taking the mick! There is no similarity. Fergie took over a team playing good football, but with a drinking culture and discipline issues off the pitch. The only club with a similar situation is Real Madrid, a club also run by the players. Man Utd now are a club well used to being run by a dictator, the issues involved are completely different. This is a club in decline purely because of bad buys and dreadful management by two wrong choices to replace Ferguson, nothing to do with the squad he left behind, as there has been plentiful money to make a significant difference.

Ferguson came in and the players were against him from the start, as he wanted them to act like professionals off the pitch. LVG has come in to a team of players desperate for him to lead them and give them direction. How are the situations similar? The failings are down to two men, Ed Woodward and Louis van Gaal, who have failed to rebuild the team, which was the only thing they needed to do. Fergie had to rip up the whole club, apart from the youth set up, and rebuild it as a professional entity.}

12.) 11 Dec 2015
11 Dec 2015 07:58:06
Ed001 could you pin your above post to the top of the page for a while. Bloody big fat piece of sense right there mate.

{Ed001's Note - no one would take any notice, as they are desperate to find any crumbs of comfort they can. I have seen it a number of times before with Liverpool, where everything is compared to Ferguson in the hope just giving a manager more time might be all that is needed.}

13.) 11 Dec 2015
11 Dec 2015 08:35:20
redman
i was around and your talking crap, ed i couldn't agree more .
it make me laugh the length some will go to to justify there stance or lvg.

14.) 11 Dec 2015
11 Dec 2015 08:36:34
Spot on Ed spot on. What makes it worse are the two of them are also instantly unlikebale and makes it hard to get behind them. Woodward being the most incompetent of the lot and needs to be shown the door.

{Ed001's Note - the club's biggest mistake was changing its two main positions in one go, it was always going to take time to get over that. It should have been phased, give the first major change a couple of years to bed in, before then changing the other.}

15.) 11 Dec 2015
11 Dec 2015 08:42:46
ken
so fergy was a dinosaur who methods.
man management and getting the best out of players went out years ago?
them 2 things are vital for any manager the fact we won the title by 11 points 2 and a bit seasons ago also points to the fact that's a very silly thing to say .
lvg tactics and style are 15 years out of date.

i love your comment about the so called experts on here not playing at the higest level so there opinions carry no weight with you, but backing it up with the very good point that a large amount of ex players and so called experts who have played at the top are saying the same .
but your right ( you must of played at an even higher level ) and there wrong.

16.) 11 Dec 2015
11 Dec 2015 08:47:03
I remember 86 well, I was going home and some away and as I said we were in a far worse state back then, I personally saw some of the drinking problems in a local pub. I agree with the Ed, the problems have been caused by Woodward and the two wrong choices of management, neither of which I agreed with.

I do think there is an analogy with Liverpool as the Ed says, I hope it doesn't take us as long to wake up as they did. However it does appear Woodward is struggling.

17.) 11 Dec 2015
11 Dec 2015 09:30:30
Redman
I'm honestly confused with your stance over lvg .
Since he was appointed we have disagreed over him, I haven't been a fan of his for a number of years you backed him all last season .
I think kens op is ridiculous just an other silly attempt to make out lvg is doing a great job, this time with comparisons to Fergys start.
As the ed pointed out the 2 situations never mind managers aren't even close yet u agree with both.

18.) 11 Dec 2015
11 Dec 2015 11:49:01
Jred

I never wanted LVG, made that clear at the beginning, I was clear in that I was disappointed they chose him. I wanted Klopp because the club needed an uplift but for some reason Lord Woodward went for LVG. By comments I think people believe I am or was a fan of LVG, but that was not the case. I recognised Moyes left us in a mess, 7th and totally shell shocked, the laughing stock of rivals with Liverpool fans rubbing their hands with glee. I believe that if we had missed the top four again the slide could have been even more serious. I was strongly opposed to Moyes because I knew it was a disaster waiting to happen, with LVG he wasn't my idea for my club but he did have experience so I wanted to see his plan. I asked whether the clubs plan was to create a defined style by appointing LVG.

Once we sacked Moyes I didn't feel we couldn't sack LVG as quickly having achieved top four but I banged on all summer about needing a forward, particularly Lewandowski so when he or similar didn't arrive I was disappointed. I believe LVG had to make changes, and judge him on his decisions, giving youth a chance has been good from him. I supported LVG's decisions where I felt they were right and have said for a while there needs to be a transition this summer from LVG. I think this week I started to feel there is a whiff of change following the CL exit and some of his decisions.

I agreed with Ken that people would have pulled SAF to pieces in 89 and they did verbally but social comment was very different then. SAF faced a much much bigger challenge as Ed said, I remember a (land line) phone call from a red after the 89 derby game who wanted SAF sacked, it was a tense time. However, as above the club was also in an albeit lesser mess when LVG arrived and that needs acknowledging.

I never believed that Moyes or LVG were the right selection and it now needs to be right either in summer or before if the point of no return is reached. Is that clear enough?

19.) 11 Dec 2015
11 Dec 2015 12:16:17
redman
if i had to pick lvg number 1 supporter last season i would of honestly thought of you .
i didn't want him at the club i can't think of many who disagreed with me more .
i think things did change when we bought martial and not lew.

20.) 11 Dec 2015
11 Dec 2015 13:14:10
Jred

I was very clear I wanted Klopp and have repeated it numerous times since to the point Ed001 even asked whether I should admit it given he has gone to Liverpool. I knew LVG had a job on considering the mess as described above so given his experience he merited time. He made top 4 even if it wasn't pretty. I have said many times I thought LVG was a turnaround director and it would be our next manager that is vital, which is why I am banging the drum loudly for Guardiola, we really cannot afford a mistake.

21.) 11 Dec 2015
11 Dec 2015 13:26:18
redman
just because kloop was your first pick doesn't mean you can't be lvg biggest fan.
its neither here nor there to me to be honest but nobody has given me more stick over my views in regards to lvg over the last 12 month or to be honest i don't think anyone has defended him more .

22.) 11 Dec 2015
11 Dec 2015 16:34:28
Jred

I am not a fan of LVG, however if he was brought in to do something and is doing it, is it his fault or who asked him? How many times have I said that the club must have known and agreed a strategy with him, therefore I will defend him if he is doing the right thing, or doing what he normally does in line with that strategy or I believe there are considerations for what has happened or I can see the benefit to the club long term. If he went off the strategy the club may not want him anyway. It has to be said that defence of him has started to be stretched recently but if I was his biggest fan why would I be suggesting he needs replacing in summer?

23.) 11 Dec 2015
11 Dec 2015 21:07:47
redmam
the was in your last sentance is the key word.