04 Mar 2016 00:15:58
question, does anyone know how long rooney is out for?
I ask because he is only 6 goals short of beating charltons all time record. if he can somehow break that record by the end of the season, do you see him being more open to leaving?
I know it sounds bad, but part of me wants him to only get 4 goals and be shipped out in the summer anyway. I don't think he deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Charlton, and I certainly don't want the history books to tell us he is our best ever striker, when if I'm honest I don't even think he's our best ever from just the premiership years. I mean if we were to put together our best prem 11 playing a 442 (to give him more of a chance of getting in) I'd pick cantona and van nistelrooy over him every time.

1.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 10:38:33
dags
if he breaks the record all the history books will show is that he scored more goals than any other player for united.
whats wrong with that for a player who has put in 12 years service for the club you support .

surly if he breaks the record he deserves it?

2.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 10:41:45
Kenny,

Are you just after a bite here mate? He might not be the best ever but for the longevity and the number of goals he would be a club legend, no doubt about it. He has won a number of premier league trophies as well as the champions league with us (something cantona and ruud never did), pretty sure Jred can defend this one better than me, we really do not need Rooney to leave in the summer and don't think there will be any plan to sell him, why do you think there would be?

3.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 10:44:58
According to physioroom.com his predicted return is early April. Given it usually takes players a couple of weeks to get fitness back up after a lay off and given it takes Rooney a couple of games to find fitness I don't think he will do it.

4.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 10:53:59
Rooney would be in an all time 11 for me. Don't let your hate for the lad diminish his achievements. At his height he was as big a handful as any player we have had at the theatre since the beginning of this club.

He's not the player he once was but he is still a legend of this club in his own right. I've said it before I'll say it again, Wayne Rooney is the only player that gets judged on what he hasn't achieved rather than what he has achieved.

Pretty poor post from the OP in my opinion.

5.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 11:18:03
I hope he smashes the record this season. That will help the team achieve the best possible position.
I want him to score in every game he plays simple as that.
If he beats Sir bobby he deserves to hold the record. He will go down as a legend after 12 years service regardless of how many more goals he scores. simples.

6.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 11:21:49
Is interesting that in many all time 11 s he does not get into the teams. To be fair he is up against some pretty stiff opposition.
I am sure he will be remembered fondly by most of his generation when they look back 20 years from now.

7.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 11:26:52
Rooney was good, Not prolific but good. He's achieved so much with the club he deserves to go into the history books.

My issue with Rooney is more the clubs fault and that's his contract not the weekly wage but the length, Rooney was showing obvious signs of 'tail off' before he signed and we will be stuck with him until he's 34.

8.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 11:45:04
Rewz what do you mean not prolific? I would say he is the exact opposite of that. The fact he is about to beat a very long standing record is testament to how prolific he is.

The club also gave Bastian a 3 year deal that will run until he is 34. Who deserves thier wage more at Man Utd, Rooney or Bastian?

9.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 12:40:38
I disagree Maze - Rooney isn't prolific for a striker. When you average out his figures they are more in line with a decent 2nd striker. Records like this will struggle to be broken moving forward and have been since the EPL started simply because players rarely stay the distance at one club and they more often than not can't maintain a starting place in a key position like a striker for their entire career.

Rooney deserves lots of praise for being able to be stalwart of the team for the length of time he has. Personally I don't think he has justified his automatic starting place on form for the past 3+ years. However the club and managers think differently.

He will be a club legend, but alas I think that is more to do with how long he stayed with the team (on mega money and don't forget he wanted out desperately as well), so his staying with Utd was not an emotional decision it was mainly financial. If somebody like Ruud or even Cole had been with the club as long as Rooney had then they would have smashed his record so I think the inevitable goal record he is about to break is a bit of a red herring. It sounds 10 times better than what it was. Exactly the same as his record for England imo.

Was a great player for a few years, will always be remembered as a top player, but for me he has been riding on his name for far too long and often to the detriment of the team of late.

P. S - I think Rooney gets judged on what he didn't achieve because he had so much more in his locker than we ended up seeing. Nothing more frustrating than potential not being fulfilled, he had it all at one stage but a bit like Gazza we never quite saw it often enough and certainly it has been missing for a long time now.

10.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 13:01:28
cole missed more than he scored .
he played in 2 teams that gave him a mountain of chances.

if rooney gets the record
he will finish at united
as top ever goal scorer.
9th in the list of games played (even tho he got paid and everyone else played for free )12 years and counting .
and he will of been an instrumental part of the club for 11 years and us winning :
5 titles
1 ECL
3 league cups

never mind what cole might of done or rudd etc very few have done what rooney has for manchester united.

11.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 13:02:23
Rooney will always be a legend for the club in my opinion, simply for the magnificent extraordinary goal he scored against city.

12.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 13:02:49
Totally agree beast.

13.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 13:09:44
Maze, RvN averaged 19 goals a season for us with one of those seasons having a major injury. In fact RvN apart from the season he got the major injury got 20 league goals each year. A feat he managed 7 times, Henry managed it 5 times, Shearer managed it 7 times. Rooney, the apparent greatest scorer for country and potentially our club has done it twice. In fact most of the time he's only just broken double figures, take into account he's been nominated penalty taker and played for the most attacking club in EPL history I think it's fair to say he's not prolific.

Rooney was phenomenal when he burst onto the scene better than Messi, Ronaldo etc. He'll be judged for what he never achieved as he's never done it at a major international tournament. He was surpassed by his peers by a considerable margin, mainly down to the hype Surrounding him, if he was Spanish, Italian playing for Althletico or AC based on his goals would you want him? I would say take the hype, nostalgia etc out of it and I would suggest no.

{Ed001's Note - hahaha better than Messi and Ronaldo? He was never anything that special, he was just big and strong and physically developed at seventeen, technically he was still prone to loose touches etc which neither of those were. If he wasn't English he wouldn't be so ridiculously over-rated.}

14.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 13:18:14
To put into context Jimmy Greaves got 366 league goals in 528 goals and for England 44 goals in 57 games.

At Jimmys scoring rate Rooney would have 251 league goals and 84 England goals.

15.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 13:50:40
rvn and co played as a 9 rooney played his best years at united on the right handside.

the expectation put on rooney where stupid . he was the best 18 year old I've seen but he never had the talent to be a messi or a zidane.
he didn't have the skill set, it wasnt all tricks and flicks .
he worked hard scored goals and made the team tick and he done that to a very high level.

he has played at the top for 12 years won everything, captained club and country, will finish top scorer for england and united .
what more do people want?

16.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 13:55:47
rewz
do you judge all players against jimmy.
i think that is really odd to be honest for a number of reasons .

im i right in thinking that you think rooney was better than messi and co but if you took the hype away and he was spanish he wasnt and you wouldn't of wanted him at united .?

17.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 14:16:19
charlton scored 49 goals for england, he didn't have the strike rate of greaves or shearer but he set a record that stood for 46 years .
england have had a lot of good strikers over the years but no one could beat it untill rooney came along.
charlton also scored a record amount of goals 249 for united, he never had the strike rate of law or rvn but he set a record that has stood so far for 43 years .

them records have lasted for that long for a reason, and its an outstanding achivement by charlton.

if rooney was to break both it should be respected for what it is .

18.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 14:30:26
Not prolific haha. 2nd highest goalscorer in the premier league. Some fans ruin football with their opinions.

19.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 14:46:04
Rewz let's just remember as well that Rooney was for the best part played out wide and in the 10 postion to accommodate other attacking players that couldn't be flexible as their abilities did not permit them to be.

On top of that, unlike Greaves and co Rooney has been playing during the years of money ball football where every stat is analysed and playing 'defensively' is seen as 'clever tactics' rather than poor football in many cases making it harder to get goals. How many Makalele's who roam 15 percent of the pitch the entire game to thwart attacks did Greaves come up against regularly?

Maybe Rooney is overhyped but then again most of the top players are overhyped and get to the point where thier own reputation precedes them such as Beckham, Owen, even Gerrard in his last few years and the list goes on. The fact of the matter is these records have stood for a long time and all these players you have listed didn't break these records with their bag full of goals - Rooney did.

{Ed001's Note - in Greavsie's day full backs were defenders, so there was no need for a defensive midfielder.}

20.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 14:59:44
Fair point Ed but did the coaches take their entourage to work day and night studying sky sports replays and every other digital sports scientific piece of technology they can get their hands on to analyse every run, move and attribute a player was capable off making and then work on a way of thwarting that player week in week out?

That for me is one of the reason that I would hold Messi and Ronaldo in higher esteem than Maradona and Pele. My opinion of course.

{Ed001's Note - the top coaches certainly worked on ways to stop their opponents. Though, by the same token, the forwards were not given the same pieces of technology to allow them to find and exploit opposition weaknesses. It is all very well trying to claim it is more difficult, but the facts are that every team and player has those same advantages, so it is really little, if any advantage.}

21.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 15:19:22
Sorry I should of clarified I meant as an 18 year old compared to Messi and Ronaldo at 18.

No, I was merely comparing him to a prolific English player. It would probably have been more relevant to compare him to Shearer. With regards to the being played on the right wing etc Thomas Muller seems to do alright from there goal wise.

{Ed001's Note - he wasn't 'better', he was just more physically developed, there is a huge difference. Freddy Adu was physically developed by the age of 14, which made him look outstanding, but his technical level was extremely average, which is why he get found out after the initial hype. Rooney is of a higher technical level than Adu, but that is all.}

22.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 15:31:58
Wow another Rooney debate. Love it. A legend and nothing else. How many positions did Rooney play in. I am surprised he hasn't played goal keeper yet. He has been a great servant of our great club and deserves the plaudits. He is a legend. Full stop.

{Ed007's Note - (clap)

23.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 15:09:44
firstly I'm not saying rooneys not good and always wasn't. I was merely asking if he breaks the record would he be willing to go.
no-one (not even rooney himself) can deny he isn't the player he was, and frankly if he wasn't 'Wayne rooney' he wouldn't be anywhere near the England squad. can anyone really argue that rooney as he is today is worth 300,000 pounds a week?

as for his position in history, I think he has been very lucky. he was a very good (not great) player at a time when our general squad has been quite pretty average, and if it weren't for our strong backline with the likes of vidic, van Der Saar and Rio, rooney wouldn't half half as many titles to his name.
out of his 12 seasons he's been with us, how many times has he been our best player that season?

24.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 17:08:43
dags
i would say he has been 1 of our best players every year for 12 year .
he played well along side rvn.
was a very important part of th the ronaldo tevez rooney front 3.
carried the team when ronaldo left .

but no all his titles are down to fact he was lucky to play in the same team as vidic.
which is as bad as "greaves had a better strike rate"

you read some rubbish on here when it comes to rooney.

it must just be trolling.

25.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 19:44:48
Its not trolling Jred just a lot of people don't see it the way you do, I don't think he has been one of our best players top 3 to 5 in most of those 12 seasons.
Fergie didn't think so Keane giggs Beckham, scholes Ronaldo Rvn didn't think so either he does not make their top 11 so you will just have to accept that not everyone agrees with you and get over it.
He will go down as a club legend due to the records he set the titles he won with his team mates and the effort he puts in during games, but he is a long way down the pecking order when it comes to peoples choice of best club players.
You will have some that agree with you but more that don't.
But you keep banging the drum that's your entitlement but I think its like pushing water up a hill, pointless and futile because people have their opinions and won't change them.
Personally mark Hughes was one of my all time united favourite centre forwards and I would select him every time ahead of Wayne Rooney I don't expect a lot would agree but I won't throw my toys out of the prams because of it.
Its not disrespectful to him sir bobby wouldn't make my all time team either as I didn't see enough of him, but I have seen more than enough of Rooney to know for sure that he would not be in my team and would fall behind Hughes rvn cantona and teves in my selection but ahead of davenport birtles and Brazil.

26.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 20:14:49
ken
ok pal .
1,he was lucky to play in a team with vidic and ferdy or he would of won nothing .
2,and his scoring record is not that good because jimmy greaves scored more in 1957
stupid comments imo .
but if you think there valid points then fair enough about sums up most of the rooney debate on here pal.

well rvp was crap when you compare his record to j greaves in 1957 to 1960.

and scholes was lucky he played in a team with vidic and kean .

im sure you told me the other day it was hard or daft to compare players from different era ( is it ok if its to prove a point on rooney )

stupid comments imo . but then again its rooney and nobody on this site would look to compare a modern player with one from the 50s unless it was rooney .

27.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 20:40:25
Pal, I agree there is no point in comparing players from different eras,
1 I didn't do that
2 I never said he was lucky and only won anything because of vidic and co
3 I made none of those arguments you quote
To be honest you are coming across as ratty crass and very immature on this point and people will continue to yank your chain because of that.
Just accept that not everyone agrees with you, I get dozens of disagrees on this page daily but that's ok, some of the arguments against my points are valid and some are odd to say the least IMO, but that's just the way it is, there is no right or wrong just different points of view.
Now I don't think you are ratty immature crass because I respect you as along standing poster and contributor to this page but if I came on here for the first time today that's the way your coming across IMO, just let it go and accept that not everyone loves and admires Wayne the way you do mate.

28.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 20:41:50
mark hughes was a top player but let's put this in to context hughes scored a 167 goals in 467 games at a ratio of 1 goal every 2.7 games .
jimmy greaves scored 266 goals in 379 games ata ratio of 1 goal every 1.4 games .
so at greaves rate hugheds would of scored 344 goal for united .

seemd a bit stupid to me but is a valid when talking about rooney.

29.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 20:56:12
ken read my post again.


"but no all his titles are down to fact he was lucky to play in the same team as vidic.  
which is as bad as "greaves had a better strike rate"

you read some rubbish on here when it comes to rooney.  

it must just be trolling. "

maybe its not trolling but i think it is, or are people really trying to use j greaves scoring record as an argument on rooney.

i would rate rooney a better player than cantona although i would rather watch cantona . ithers wouldnt. no probs

but the rubbish that gets used against rooney imo is stupid .

you wouldn't get the same rubbish posted about any other player its trolling but each to there own .

30.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 20:57:35
Again Jred I never mentioned greaves or goal scoring averages or ratios I just loved Hughes's attitude technique and the way he played, he gave a whack and could take a whack he was my centre forward hero and I tried to play the game the way he did. I admired him so he was one of my favourite players of all time, not because of how many goals he scored but because of a hundred tiny reasons.
If you read above and I have always been consistent I want him (Rooney) to break the records and score in every game, I will always regard him as a club legend but he will never be a favourite of mine for a lot of different reasons but I admire his goal scoring record but don't admire him as a person or a player when I draw up a list of my all time favourites
I think this team would be better off without him and I see flaws in his game you don't and my view is he is well past his best and his contribution is more negative now than positive. I'm not alone in that view as you are not alone in yours but when the result of the poll comes I'm sure am in the majority.

31.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 21:13:50
I don't think some of the arguments used against Rooney are valid I agree with you there, but again people are entitled to their opinion.
Ronaldo will also never be a hero of mine again for a host of different reasons but I admire his talent, if I was his team mate though we would fall out no doubt about it😄.

32.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 21:16:08
ken
i never at any point said you did .

what are you struggling with .
i said the greaves and the rooney was lucky to play with vidic argument was daft .
i can't believe any body would use such a daft argument in seriousness .
i think my post on hughes showed how daft it was ( i must of been wrong )

nobody comes up with such daft arguments when discussing any other player
i think it must be trolling or looking for bite.

you replied " its not trolling people have a different view "
that fine if people rate hughes bebe who ever .
but honest to god "greaves would of scored more "

33.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 21:20:17
ken
reading some of the post on here do you want to be in the majority?

34.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 21:47:46
I'm not struggling with anything it is you that is drowning in BS.
I don't think anybody s debating that Rooney scored the amount of goals he has, its an undisputable fact.
People are disputing whether he is a great player most appear to think he isn't a great player despite his goal scoring achievements.
His goals to games ratio is not as good as other players that have played for united or England or in the epl. You think that's irrelevant. But its a stat people are using to qualify their argument.
In your post above you rightly said said it was pointless comparing players or teams from different eras and I agree with that, I didn't do that to qualify my opinion on Rooney. So why mention it?

35.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 22:25:22
i don't think anybody has mentioned if he is a great player .
its more dismissing the fact what he has won . but i suppose he was lucky to play with vidic and vds .
but most players would be very happy with 5 league titles and a euro cup .
and very few average players end up top scores for club and country .

im not sure about goal to game ratio he was never a 9 neither was charlton .
hughes goal to game ratio was average 1 in 3 . great player tho

i wonder how people would of judged rooney if he had of jacked in 3 year ago after scoring 34 goals in the season (second time in 3 seasons) .

i get the feeling rooney gets judged over the last 3 year to be honest.
because i can remember when all united fans thought he was a great player.
infact i was on this site when that was the case . strange how things change.

36.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 22:41:34
most players get judged on there best years not there worse.
2013 he scored 34 goal in a pretty average team playing the 10 role on the rhs and cm .

what a player he was.

2010 after ronaldo left again played the 9, overhead kick against city unplayable at times . got injured against munich at the end of the first leg . i think we would of won the ECL that year if he hadnt of got injured .

he was god like on this site

when we first bought him what a great player we had .

now the op and others don't want him to break the record . i bet OT goes nuts when he does . or maybe i'm in the minority.

37.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 22:54:46
2nd time in 3 seasons or 2nd time in 9 seasons? both are facts it depends on which side of the argument your on, I wish he had left 3 years ago too we would have got a decent price then. And we wouldn't have won any less without him in the last 3 years but might have won something if we had invested in better. That we will never know.
Several on this thread alone referred to him being great or not great or alluded to that dags beast rewz maze ed001 so I think that's more what people were debating,

38.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 23:17:37
2010 i can't remember any united fans arguing rooney wasnt a great player .
34 goals in 44 games
26 league goals in 32 games .
the previous season him and ronaldo where the dogs b.
everyone thought he was a great player then .
short memories . or fickle fans?

39.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 23:27:55
Do you think vardy is a great player or Lambert? Couple of outstanding seasons in 12 does not make anybody a great player that's my opinion.

40.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 23:30:28
Did you ever think of entering mastermind specialist subject Rooney the glory years 2010 and eh eh some of 2009 and eh some of 2013 😄😄😄😄😄.

41.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 23:44:30
vardy and lambert aren't england top scorer and second at united .

lambert and vardy are no where near the same level as rooney .
thats up there with greaves crack.

lol fickle fans.

42.) 04 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 23:54:55
mastermind that's an other really poor attempt
how good was in at euro 2004 when 17 years old he scored 4 in 4 . then got injured and england got knocked out in the qf . how far coukd we of gone .
great player .

then united bought him, hattrick in his first game .
great player .

tevez ronaldo rooney . more ronaldo and rooney best 2 young uns about, his goal against arsenal in the Ecl semi.
great player.
united fans raving about him .
i could go on .
he was a great player on this site a few year back . but not any more . fickle fans .
but that's this site will go nuts when he breaks the record .

43.) 05 Mar 2016
05 Mar 2016 00:03:06
sorry that should be
OT will go nuts when he breaks the record .


lambert lol.

44.) 05 Mar 2016
05 Mar 2016 00:19:25
Jred what goal against Arsenal in the UCL semis? I don't seem to remember Rooney scoring? 🙃.

45.) 05 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 20:43:33
jred, while I will accept rooney has been one of our best players most seasons, he has rarely been our standout best. I had already said he is a very good footballer, but we have largely been pretty average over his best years so frankly he should be up there anyway.

also I was not saying we won the league solely because we had rio n vidic, but pointing out our title wins have been built on the foundation of a strong defence not attacking prowess, and your arguement rooney has carried the team since ronaldo left is strange seen as we have won the league only twice since, and on both occasions rooney was not our leading goal scorer but berbatov (2011) and rvp (2013)

46.) 05 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 21:33:30
not quite sure why grieves keeps being brought up. rews only mentioned him to put rooneys goal scoring record into context.
Tbh I think liniker would have broken the English record had he not messed up his toe. also I too agree that you can't really compare older players in the same way, as the modern guys play (and thus score) against poorer sides in friendlies a lot more. just look at how many guys had 80-100 caps compared to the ones in the last 20years.

47.) 05 Mar 2016
04 Mar 2016 21:40:28
I thought I had posted this earlier but apparently it didn't go thru. my comment to rooney being lucky was because our title winning sides were built on a foundation of a strong defensive backline (containing the likes of van der saar, vidic and rio) and if it weren't for that we simply wouldn't have won as our midfield was pretty poor compared to previous standards.