20 Jan 2015 07:20:18
Here's nine reasons why we should show our full support and respect to LVG and give him to the end of the season before judging him.

1) Champions league title winner.
2) UEFA cup winner.
3) Dual UEFA super cup winner.
4) Quadruple Eredivisie title winner.
5) KNVB cup winner.
6) Dual La Liga title winner.
7) Copa del Rey winner.
8) Bundasliga title winner.
9) DFB Pokal winner

May aswell throw in he was a runner up in another 2 Champions league finals and he took out 3rd place in last years World Cup among other achievements.

Who can really argue with this success? In my opinion this is the trophy cabinet of a winner with great footballing intellect. The guys record speaks for itself. The least he deserves is time.

1.) 20 Jan 2015
I agree with you. LVG is being cautious due to our erratic defence. Damage limitation. He's sacrificied all out attack for a methodical possession keeping tactics. He may have spent £150 million but it was long overdue and due to a lack of quality players available at the club we are still short and making up for our short falls. We're probably 3-4 players away from having a complete squad.

Yes it would be nice to see a free flowing high tempo performance week in week out but we simply don't have a defence that would allow us to do that

2.) 20 Jan 2015
20 Jan 2015 10:03:44
Yet but beast thinks differently, so I say get him out ;) all that means nothing when we have not qualified for CL before feb.

3.) 20 Jan 2015
I could win the league managing Bayern.
Barcelona or Real for La Liga - hardly a great success
Dutch football is sub-par
Same CL success as Roberto Di Matteo in a very long career managing top clubs
Who cares about UEFA Super Cup?
Who cares about Copa del Rey?

Did you watch the Dutch during the World Cup, awful to watch and jammy as hell, kind of like us at the minute?

The deck is stacked massively in his favour and he still is doing his best to mess it up. Here's 9 reasons why we should sack him:

1. No progresss still
2. We are boring to watch, not learning from mistakes
3. He is not using the wealth of talent how he should be
4. He authorised multi-million pound signings that he doesn't rate
5. He has a track record of leaving clubs in the lurch or being sacked
6. He has one good season then it collapses
7. World Class players typically fall out with him, starting already
8. He cares more about his legacy than Man Utd
9. He is an egotistical maniac that I can't wait to see put in his place by fans, media and players once the power men come to their senses

Bonus one - I am not wrong!

4.) 20 Jan 2015
20 Jan 2015 10:48:59
I agree with pretty much all of what Mad Hatter says, but I do think there is room for more attacking than we are playing and we could still be winning games. Against Leicester and Burnley at home we should be able to be more expansive and creating plenty of chances to beat them by more than the odd goal, so hopefully we will see this.

People's expectations are way too high and apparently it is because 'we are Manchester United so we should be winning the league and never accepting anything less' but it doesn't really work like that. I do appreciate the people thinking LVG is making mistakes but I talk to a lot of people about the games and everyone has a different opinion and would have done something different, so he is never going to please everybody.

I said in September I will not overreact to a win or a defeat this season and see where we end up, there will be terrible games and there will be good games, we are at the moment in line for Champions League next season, you can bring all the 'but what if we lose our next 5 games and Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham and Southampton win all of there's, we will then be 7th and the world will end' scenarios into it, but at the moment we are in the top 4 with a few decent fixtures to come, so yes there is room for improvement, maybe more than some would have expected, but LVG is by no means doing a bad job, just not an amazing one.

I think most people have a similar opinion but just choose to air it in different ways, then there are the 5% either way who think he is doing amazingly or think he should be fired, but they are the minority.

5.) 20 Jan 2015
20 Jan 2015 10:55:04
Beast,

Your lack of ability to even think that you may be wrong makes you come across as a little pig headed. I do enjoy your posts as I have said many times, and you do back it up with your opinions, but you are starting to state these opinions as facts and that's when it becomes very difficult to actually take on board what you are saying.

At least 7 out of 9 of your list are your opinion that you have no proof of.

Who cares about Copa Del Ray? I would imagine the fact last years final was between the 2 teams that have won it the most, Real Madrid and Barcelona that a lot of people care about it.

6.) 20 Jan 2015
To everyone who agrees with the Beast's ideology this is what he has effectively just said :

1) Winning the Bundesliga is no achievement.
2) Winning La Liga - one of the top three leagues in the world - doesn't merit success.
3) Winning the Dutch championship several times is irrelevant in world football.
4) Winning the champions league once in a managerial career is not good enough for a coach.
5) The UEFA super cup isn't worth watching never mind winning.
6) The Copa Del Rey (Spanish FA cup) competition is the equivalent of preseason friendlies.
7) Finishing in third place out of thirty-two teams behind arguably the best two international teams in the world requires no skill. It is just 'jammy'.
8) Years of achievements count for nothing if you can't produce world beating performances while getting results when you have been in a job - in a new country and environment - for six months.

I have never seen a more immature, closed minded, ridiculous and unjustified post ever on this site. You are living in a fantasy world.

WOW.

7.) 20 Jan 2015
If Beast wants to look for egotistical people at OT, then we had one in charge for over quarter of a century. Where were all the dissenters from on here for SAF between 1986 and 1990? Were they born or even watching back then? We knew we needed a rebuild so despite being far more frustrated than now by some distance, especially as Liverpool were winning, we knew we had to give SAF more time and the same goes with lvg.
Some of the same people who demanded more time for last seasons manager are calling for LvG's head. Less time than someone who didn't have the CV to back him up. The difference is probably partly the emotional SAF outburst to support the new manager.
I shouted 442 at SAF those years ago and I would shout it again but I won't be booing or calling for LvGs head. He needs and deserves more time based on his experience. For me the ones who are making the most noise now don't appreciate what bad really looks like

8.) 20 Jan 2015
GDS2 - Why would I post something if I think I could be wrong?

This is all about opinions, but the points I make are very reasonable for an objective supporter, I don't bang on about his training, etc for example in my post as I am not in the know, just his decision making is questionable and most of them are acknowledged facts.

9.) 20 Jan 2015
20 Jan 2015 13:23:29
I think having jones taking corners is progress. At least it gets him out of the box and cuts the risk of him injuring himself charging at the ball.

10.) 20 Jan 2015
Agree with the original post. Beast, you're talking about us spending the money and we should turn into CL winners overnight. Madrid built for years to get where they are, Chelsea have been rebuilding for 4 seasons and are now ready to challenge.
LVG has come into a team devoid of ideas, confidence. A club that needs a major overhaul. He then bought six players, 5 of whom are foreign and you expected them just to come in and play at the top of their game? To add to all that, most of the time, a lot of the players were injured, and it is not until the last few games that we've had people coming back from injury and getting match fitness.
I think it shows a lack of understanding when you're expecting miracles to happen in 4 months of football.
LVG is a stubborn so and so, and he has made mistakes, but we are in the mix for CL spot and we must give him time to get it right. If in 18 months time, we are still challenging West Ham for 6th place, then you have my full backing to ask for his head on a plate!

11.) 20 Jan 2015
20 Jan 2015 13:14:42
Beast , you are doing yourself no favours mate. We all know you don't like LvG , but your constant crusade against him just comes across as a personal vendetta. You do of course have some very valid concerns ,but the way in which you manipulate and twist every post dos not help your cause. Nor does it help endear you to other posters.
Your posts , your opinions. Fair enough. But to be credible , you need to be a little more balanced with your views. The above post is a good example of your obvious bias , and I can completely understand the responses to it , such as that from Juanmatasbeard.
Look at your response again , and with the exception of points 5 and 6 , all of those points could be said about SAF in recent years , and he didn't do a bad job , did he?

12.) 20 Jan 2015
JMB - I think he has underachieved considering the time he has had in the game and the clubs/players he has managed, I would have thought somebody of his hype would have done much more.

It does help with getting a job for sure, but what he has done here and at many of his previous clubs is consistently underperform (overall) and cause mayhem.

Why am I immature for disagreeing with your view, its ironic how the few people that resort to name calling are actually guilty of their own accusations? It is possible to have different views and not be a child, thick or deranged you know!

The facts are anybody with half a brain can twist things for their own argument, but in my opinion he is not the right man for the job as our performances are clearly showing. Your one point disguised as 9, was quashed by my 9 points in 30 seconds of thought. My list can go on, all the LVG lovers have only his trophy cabinet to rest on for their arguments, (his sketchy CV) and frankly it should be twice as big, they also see the trophies but don't see the carnage he left behind in getting them, or all the empty spaces, which he doesn't look like filling.

Most people are selfish, I just don't like the fact that people are ignoring this about LVG. He would sacrifice our club for the slightest chance to prove his theory on football is correct - we are the petri dish for a mad scientist! We should get out before its too late.

13.) 20 Jan 2015
Beast carry on mate it is your opinion this is a banter site and would be boring if everybody kept saying lvg is great we should look again after three windows or at the end of the season no top four he will be gone but carry on mate do not always agree but you make some valid points

14.) 20 Jan 2015
Betty - I am responding to the original post, which I disagree with in terms of the point he is making.

Obviously I don't want to annoy my fellow Utd fans.

I think SAF should have gone in 2009, I was saying as much even when we won the last title, I am not applying double standards - just remaining true to my views, whilst other people try to delude themselves and in turn sway fence sitters that LVG is the right man.

I'll hold off for a bit as I can see its unpopular, but read the OP again it simply lists his CV, which we have talked about hundreds of times before, so me outlining my concerns which I have done many times before is no different, especially as I didn't initiate the debate!

15.) 20 Jan 2015
20 Jan 2015 13:40:29
Nomid,

Spot on mate, agree 100%.

Beast,

I understand why you post your opinion, but to tell us all you are not wrong is just pig headed, its never crossed your mind that you might actually be wrong despite nobody agreeing with you.

16.) 20 Jan 2015
Nice one Daz.

17.) 20 Jan 2015
20 Jan 2015 13:59:42
To be honest, I'm half and half on this one. I do believe LvG should be given the time and support to build 'his' team, and they key being he's not going to build his team in 1 or even 2 transfer windows. . it takes a bit of time. It's for this reason why I supported Moyes, and still feel he wasn't given the chance he perhaps deserved.

However, on some level I can see what Beast is trying to say and can understand why he's worried. It's clear the LvG has a massive ego, and that he has a history for upsetting players. I just hope he's able to reign it in and the let the better parts of his personality/attributes come through.

In essence, I honestly think it's 50/50 as to how LvG will work out at United. He could become a great United manager, and potentially be labelled as the man who proved there's life after Sir Alex. . However on the same coin toss, he could implode and walk out tomorrow stating that he can't work with the players and board.

WF Red Devil

18.) 20 Jan 2015
GDS2 - What is so wrong about my 9 points?

1. No progress still (we all have eyes)
2. We are boring to watch, not learning from mistakes (acknowledged by almost everyone)
3. He is not using the wealth of talent how he should be (ADM, Rooney, Falcao, Herrera)
4. He authorised multi-million pound signings that he doesn't rate (Herrera, Shaw)
5. He has a track record of leaving clubs in the lurch or being sacked (look at his record)
6. He has one good season then it collapses (as above)
7. World Class players typically fall out with him, starting already (as above and we are seeing with Falcao now)
8. He cares more about his legacy than Man Utd (Debateable, but just listen to him)
9. He is an egotistical maniac that I can't wait to see put in his place by fans, media and players once the power men come to their senses (my own personal view, so I can't be wrong on that, people can disagree of course, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong for thinking it)

19.) 20 Jan 2015
20 Jan 2015 14:15:32
WFRD,

I pretty much agree with that, if somebody came on here arguing that LVG is the best thing ever and has done an amazing job I would disagree with them also, but nobody has done that as far as I can see?

There is a middle ground that I think most people sit in where they are happy to wait and see for now, because there are some good things and some bad and it could go either way, and 5 months is not enough time to tell which way it will go.

20.) 20 Jan 2015
I am prepared to admit that there is a chance I could be made to look very foolish with how I have behaved surrounding LVG. However when you look at all the history of LVG, the way we are performing, the issues that are starting to be addressed publicly, then the odds are more in favour of me being correct with my observations (in my humble view).

When I initially started spouting off, there was a much higher chance I could have been wrong as he had no real time to make adjustments (I just smelled a rat), but he has had some now and I still see no progress. I'm all for giving people time, but only if they learn.

If you asked an independent bookmaker to put odds on it, then I think disaster would trump triumph, but this is one bet I would happily lose.

I appreciate there is a very large grey area here for a lot of supporters - but I think it is important to counter LVG championing like the OP did, to ask people to read about him and watch our performances - that should be argument enough rather than blind faith or misguided statistics that paint one very simplistic picture to a very complex situation.

Granted time will reveal all in the end, but half the fun is speculating and using tangible evidence to make assumptions - what better way than to watch the terrible state we are in on the football field to gauge how well he is doing so far!

Our eyes tell us all we need to know every time we struggle to keep them open during games!

21.) 20 Jan 2015
20 Jan 2015 14:23:52
Beast, totally disagree with most of your posts, but I love reading them, mate. I detect a slight stirring of the pot in your posts, mixed with a dash of tongue-in-cheek humour.

I think people are maybe taking you up wrong. Or maybe I am :)

Red Man, you're not the only oldie on here remember! It's not good at the minute, and mistakes have, and are, being made. But it has been much worse.

22.) 20 Jan 2015
Beast, I realise all that mate and I totally understand that you are just trying to "back up" your opinion. I don't like to see one poster constantly getting shot down all the time, as you are by most. But of the 9 points you listed, most of them just come across as being written by a pig headed person who refuses to acknowledge any positive achievements by a manager you clearly despise. I am sure you are not a pig headed person (unless you have a big snout and pointy ears?), but some of your posts make you appear as such.
I don't even think anyone on here thinks LvG is the new "messiah", but some of us realise it is going to take time. Hell, LvG even said we should expect this sort of scenario, as soon as he took the job.
Give him time, and then judge him. I remember last season, many people were criticising Mourinho at Chelsea for being boring and negative. For setting up to not lose, rather than win games. Many thought he had lost his mojo and said Chelsea were boring and would win nothing playing thay way. Now, do you think he has given in to all those critics, or was he merely taking the team back to basics and forming a strong foundation from which they could build. Move onto this season, and that strong foundation as enable Chelsea to play good exciting football with great success. Maybe, just maybe LvG is trying to do the same.
Of course, that might all be nonsense and we could be playing the same boring football next year. He may well not even be here next year. But my point is, give him the time to sort the team out, get in the players he needs and then see where we are.
I am not comparing Lvg to Mourinho directly, but see the difference a year makes given the time, and players that he needed and wanted.

23.) 20 Jan 2015
20 Jan 2015 14:45:03
Stevie,

I enjoy Beast's post too, if I didn't I wouldn't reply to them, there is no malice or personal abuse in my disagreeing, and if we all agreed it would be boring.

Unfortunately though I don't think Beast's posts are a wind up and there is no stirring of the pot going on, the opinions are genuinely his own, if they aren't then he is wasting a lot of time saying them 10 times a day.

24.) 20 Jan 2015
20 Jan 2015 15:16:50
GDS, maybe wind-up was the wrong way of putting it. I just don't think he's taking himself as seriously as others are.

25.) 20 Jan 2015
"No progress"? The league position and stats say something different.

Just saying.

26.) 20 Jan 2015
20 Jan 2015 20:19:30
Red Man, I honestly don't know who you're referring to, when you say that people who wanted to give Moyes a fair crack at it last season, are the same ones calling for LVG's head now.

Apart from one lad, Beast is the only guy I've seen on here, who's come out and emphatically stated he wants LVG to be sacked now. You're making over-exaggerated generalisations to prove a point it would seem.

99% of the rest of us, whilst frustrated to varying degrees, with some of the things we've witnessed, are aware that sacking a manager so soon after his appointment, would be stupid and counter-productive.

27.) 20 Jan 2015
Steviek

Beast is directly calling for LvG to be sacked however there are posters who were calling for Moyes to have more time being very negative towards LvG in far less time.

28.) 20 Jan 2015
20 Jan 2015 23:09:39
Maybe they just expected more from him, with his CV and the money spent.

I wasn't expecting fireworks, because I wasn't a big fan of his to begin with, but I probably was expecting a bit better than what we've seen. Still time, though.

29.) 21 Jan 2015
StevieK

LVG was far from my first choice but at least his CV matches the job standard