07 Feb 2021 15:12:22
I'm not sure how to feel about yesterday's game, annoyed, upset, exasperated. Offensively we were good, creating more chances that we have in some games and scoring three goal against a team that don't give away cheap goals.

Yet here we are again talking about how poor we are in defence. Every week we hope it will get better, like we are waiting for something to click. It won't Harry Maguire is great at a few things. Such as, aerial duels or carrying the ball out from the back and breaking the press. However, he is poor at too many things. Such as, positional sense and reading of the game. This is exasperated by his lack of pace and mobility and his tendency to get caught ball watching which drags him out of place. We have seen multiple times now how he struggles with communication or spatial awareness often tackling or blocking his team mates as the attempt to defend.

Lindelof actually has good positional sense, is good in 1v1's can play out from the back. He's not rapid but he isn't slow like Maguire. His real weakness is aerially he can be bullied. If we are honest we have actually seen a regression from him since playing alongside Maguire. The season before Harry signed Lindelof was actually a contender for player of the year for us.

They just don't work as a partnership, and if I'm honest I don't see many people working well with Maguire in a partnership. I think he would work in a back three only. In a central duo his partner has to do his own work and spend 90 minutes covering for Harry. The problem we have now is will any manager be brave enough to drop an 80m defender. To be honest I'm at the point of wondering what exactly Maguire offered that Smalling didn't, certainly whether Maguire is worth around 60m more for.

While I agree to an extent that a more defensively astute manager might be able to get a little more out of our defenders, I disagree that they would be able to turn Maguire into a top defender. He is a CDM without mobility playing in defence.

Every time we drop points we have conceded goals due to individual mistakes, players switching off, not paying attention, in the wrong place, making poor decisions.

Tactically I actually don't think we do a lot wrong, zonal marking is better than man to man for the most part, we keep our full back narrow so they can get involved in possession and we keep the centre of the box well defended forcing play wide and reliant on crosses or cut backs to find a way to our goal. By keeping our full backs narrow it negates high presses that often try and isolate a player wide using the by-line to limit their space then once turning the ball over that defender is out of the game and it leaves big gaps in the half space to attack, either dragging a midfielder or centre back out to cover creating more space centrally. Thus by tucking our full backs in they can't be targeted for a high press and the area where 80% of goals are scored has four defenders covering it.

Tactically there isn't a lot wrong with that, where we come unstuck is due to central players making mistakes and giving the opposition chances centrally in dangerous areas.

This has been compounded by a drop off in performance levels of DDG, defensively we have been poor since Sir Alex retired, even with defensive managers such as Moyes, LvG and Mourinho we have been guilty of poor defending often having our blushes saved by a couple of world class saves by DDG. In the 5 seasons between 2013/ 14-2017/ 18 David De Gea out performed his xGA by around 11 goals a season. Meaning that of the shots he faced he saved 11 that he wouldn't be expected to save. How bad would we have been with an extra 11 goals a season conceded?

Well in 2013/ 14 we would have conceded 54 goals instead 43, which would have almost certainly seen us finish lower than the 7th place we managed. The following season we would have conceded 48 rather than 37, most likely knocking us out of the top four that season. In the 2015/ 16 we would have conceded 46 rather than 35, which considering we only score 49 that year would have meant we would have finished the season with a pitiful +3 goal difference. You can see where this is going. Any small success we have had since Sir Alex retired has been built on DDG performing world class saves and digging us out of the hole more often than not, rather than being any good at defending.

Sadly however, DDG isn't the player he was a few years ago, his reactions have slowed and the other areas of his game haven't improved. He is still mediocre at playing the ball out from the back, he is poor at defending his area, he is too easily bullied, and he doesn't communicate enough or effectively.

Last night DDG was partially at fault for two of the three goals, and if he was still at the level he was three years ago he would have saved James Rodriguez's goal as well.

Last night we didn't win due to a declining keeper and poor individual errors in defence. Simple as that. Which while annoying, upsetting and exasperating, is something none of us can be surprised at and is something that won't be fixed until we get better players playing in those areas.

We are in a similar position to Liverpool a few years ago, promising going forward, but let down by poor defensive errors and a keeper who wasn't good enough. They spent big bringing in Alisson and VvD and look at the rewards they have reaped from that. Now we need to see how if our owners and the board have the ambition and ability to do likewise and bring in the players we need to give us the base to compete at the highest level.

1.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 15:47:16
our clowns who make transfer decissions do not see the likes of lapote or dias has good enough. just think what them two would do to our defence.

2.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 15:55:21
sent to early was going to say. both would have probably cost a bit more than slab head. the mind boggles.

3.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 16:01:54
They had 3 shots on target and ddg has made 2 mistakes .
Frustrating to drop points with the last kick of the game .

4.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 16:18:48
Absolving the mangers duty to improve players, let alone a world record defender is a bit of a stretch. He's been giving £160 million worth of defensive talent. If Maguire isn't very good, why buy him?

We have a coach in Charge who has not improved our defense one bit in 3 years. Fred and McTominay are the rubber blankets in case th defenders wet the bed. And Man Utd should never be playing two holding midfielders at home.

As for De Gea, he's still head and shoulders above Henderson, who should have went out on loan again. Henderson has none nothing to warrant the no.1 spot when he's played. If anything Romero should be in contention to playing.

I agree Shappy we are top heavy in regards to quality in the squad. But our VVD moment was signing Maguire. It can only fall at the coaches (all the coaches) inability to organise a better defensive outfit.

5.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 16:38:25
Shappy - our owners signed our own version of VVD. It was Maguire.

We also made DDG the best paid keeper in the world.

So we already signed the defender you’re wanting, and I’d argue we signed the keeper as well.

Whether they were the right decisions is another matter entirely, but we’ve spent the money in the CB and arguably the GK based on the contract.

If you were the owner would you sanction another £140m in transfer fees + wages + agents + other costs to sign a GK and CB, while also retaining Maguire and DDG?

6.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 16:40:08
I love that wet the bed analogy Mumbles 😂.

7.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 16:55:03
But he's already spent big to bring in maguire, you can not use the excuse that he's not been backed by the board in that area of the pitch.

If Ole argues that the amount of goals we get from the right wing position is below par because he hasn't been backed in that area, 100% agree on that.

But when it comes centre back, the board backed him and got him his guy and unfortunately he's just backed the wrong horse.

8.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 17:02:39
We controlled the vast majority of the game and restricted everton to 3 shots on target.
1 of them from an assist from ddg and the other a long ball from a free kick .
We are probably a cb short to play with maguire I will be very surprised if that isn't addressed in thd summer .

{Ed047's Note - comedy gold

9.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 17:09:43
I'm not absolving the coaching team of improving our players, but I do appreciate it isn't possible to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Maguire was a Jose target before Ole took over, it seems that at our club there are some players who are signed on the managers advise and some who are "club" signings. We have seen this before, Herrera and Shaw were club signings, LvG said so at the time. Players the club had agreed to sign before he came on board. If LvG is to be believed quite a few of the players the club signed under him were 6th or 7th on his list of targets. Bailly and possibly Pogba were club signings practically agreed before Jose was manager, or at least heavily pursued. Maguire was a player Jose wanted the summer before he was sacked and signed the summer after. While some feel DvdB was a club signing with Ole really wanting Grealish.

So I think its clear something odd is happening at our club in terms of recruitment. Making it very hard to pin our signings on any one individual. Ultimately I suppose no player would be signed against the managers wishes, so while that player might not be a managers first or even 5th choice, they do agree to the signing.

While there is little debate about whether we overpaid for Maguire, the real question should be is he good enough. Some have called him our best defender, but if he's our best defender then the rest aren't even professional footballers then. After watching him closely over the past 18 months I would say his only useful defensive trait is being a big lump for the ball to bounce off his slabhead when the ball is tossed in to the middle. His tackling is so-so, he has no pace and the turning circle that even RMS Titanic would consider pitiful. His positional sense compounds all of this as he is often in the wrong place at the wrong time (and not just in Greece), he gets caught ball watching and often gets in the way/ tackles his teammates. While he doesn't communicate with his teammates. It turns out that Matic does half the job of being captain being in charge of discipline according to Harry himself. Which begs the question is he a good leader? His best trait is his ability to bring the ball out from the back. However if pressured onto his left foot he can't play the ball out and often gives it away.

I honestly feel that our results would dramatically improve if Maguire suffered a season ending injury.

10.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 17:10:51
Also Shappy. You don't think any manager could turn Maguire into a top defender?

What did we pay £80 million For? Was he not a top defender at Leicester? Were his managers at Leicester not managing a top centre half?

11.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 17:17:50
Mumbles have you moved on to maguire now that shaw is playing well?

12.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 17:20:36
You're hoping our captain gets a season long injury to improve? that's disgusting.

If Ole didn't want Maguire or thought there were better alternatives, then he should have spoke up. Donny clearly isn't Ole's playing because he's treated him quite poorly. He made Maguire captain. He's clearly someone who Ole wanted. So why sign a player who hope gets a season long injury?

Long story short, Ole has failed to improve our defence in 3 years. And making out no manager could improve them is an absolute joke!

13.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 17:24:43
I have no idea what you're talking about Jred.

14.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 18:37:33
I get criticised for saying the manager isn’t good enough but someone wishing a season ending injury to our captain is ok? Really. That is disgraceful.

{Ed047's Note - I know it’s unheard of but in Shappy’s defence I don’t think he was wishing that on Maguire just more that Maguire is the problem rather than the solution.

15.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 19:37:51
The reason why our clowns who make the desicions brought Maguire because as you see there people who think that he is "great from the back" etc, and they thought oh that's our leader.
In fact he is crap, while his passes are usually accurate he often makes the wrong decision, drives the ball in blind positions and put his teammates in difficult position. And while he puts them under pressure, more often than not he doesn't move to become an option to help his mates. Ofcourse when he is under pressure he makes a lot of mistakes but because they don't guide directly at goal people don't see it.
The easy excuse is always the board, our managers don't want the players and are always the victims. Like with Pogba. The previous season Zose spend all the summer chasing Pogba because he wanted him at Chelsea. Finally he brought him at Manchester and all were good. But then Pogba caused problems and all of sudden Zose didn't want him and he was a club sighning or Adidas brought him to us.
Stop the excuses. Ole if he doesn't rate Maguire the only thing he has to do is being ruthless and not play him. Oh but he is his lovely boy and he plays every single minute.

16.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 20:28:08
Maguire won't be going anywhere after a dodgy start to the season he has been ok . It seems its his turn to take pelters it will be someone else in a week or so .
I'm not sure him and linders complement each other, I will be very surprised if we don't bring in a cb to play alongside maguire in the summer .
Shaw is improving all the time he doesn't even get that much stick on here now .
AwB 1v1 excellent still has a habit of getting caught out of position definitely improving going forward .
Telles has done ok as well and gives us an other option.
Bailly unfortunately can't stay fit which is a shame as he had done well alongside maguire . I was told he has been in a car crash and that's why he is out at the moment.

17.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 20:46:51
Come on jred. Maguire was at fault for the equaliser, and his lack of pace and positioning contributed to their first. Come on man, you can surely see that.

18.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 21:06:14
Wazza do you think. He could of done better for the first but its not massive mistake. Calvert gets a ok cross in which ddg makes a meal off.

He done ok last season and has this season won't be going anywhere.
But like I say I don't think him and linders complement each other.

19.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 21:12:49
I personally think in Bailey we have a good defender who with some help from a decent defensive coach could do a good job for us, i know he’s rash and prone to errors but that can be coached out of him.

20.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 21:18:02
Its not his turn to take pelters. I have stability, don't worry about that. He gets pelters week in week out from me. I don't wish him injuries ofcourse. I just want to go and find his level somewhere else.
First goal his opponent overpace him, second goal he is going to head the ball Lindelof was ready to head, third goal he holds the line too deep. But i forgot it, De Gea must have had the speed of Bolt and go out of his line and stop Kalven.

21.) 07 Feb 2021
07 Feb 2021 22:24:33
Lets all calm down
Everton came back well. albeit the 3rd goal was a shambles. I think bringing Tuanzebe at that late stage was a mistake and it gave them the free kick. It just fell to Everton and they grabbed an equaliser. If we had won there would be no moaning and if we had scored a goal like that we would be celebrating.

22.) 08 Feb 2021
08 Feb 2021 10:07:35
I think its clear that I'm not wishing a player to be injured. Just that I think an injury is the only way I see Maguire getting dropped out of the starting line up.

In a parallel universe somewhere I think Maguire got sent to a Greek prison in the summer. So was unable to play all season for us and United are 5 points clear at the top of the league.

Mumbles you ask why the club spent 80m on him? Simple we are run by rank amateurs who couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

Forget who the manager is let's look at United's recruitment since Sir Alex and David Gill left.

We paid 6m more for Fellaini than we needed to. While spending the rest of the summer chasing players who had no intention of joining us.

We then panic bought Mata in January, a very good player but one which seemingly we didn't have a place for in the starting 11. Which played out in most managers crowbarring him in at RW.

The mess of transfers during LvG's time mean the 36m rising to a potential 58m we paid for Martial one of the better signings we made during that period. Falcao, Di Maria, Rojo, Valdes, Schweinsteiger, Depay, Schneiderlin, Blind and Darmian. Have all flopped or failed to live up to expectations.

With only Romero, Herrera and Shaw along with Martial considered somewhat of a success.

Jose Mourinho made a further 11 signings, spending over 370m in the process. The man of glass Eric Bailly being his first. Zlatan, Mkhitaryan, Pogba, Sanchez, Lindelof, Lukaku, Matic, Dalot, Fred and Grant.

Some big flops in there in Mkhitaryan and Sanchez. Lukaku we over paid for, and was never good enough. Same can be said for Pogba, although he has the talent to be good enough, he just doesn't show it enough. Bailly is challenging Jones for the affections of our Physio. Grant was never intended to play. Zlatan was a expensive short term fix, but blocked our younger forwards. Dalot has never kicked on and also has his eye on the physio. Leaving Fred, Matic and Lindelof as the only ones who have come close to being considered decent signings and in truth all three should be squad players rather than first choice. Although I'd accept at the time of signing Matic was good enough to be first choice.

Looking at the mess we have made in the transfer market, the 1 billion pounds we have spent with very little it show for it. Why is it so hard to fathom that the 80m spent on Maguire has been spaffed up the wall.