28 Apr 2021 21:35:48
Watching City v PSG just shows how important a top manager makes a difference.

{Ed014's Note - shows just how far behind the rest are too!

1.) 28 Apr 2021
28 Apr 2021 22:02:46
Watching Pochettino choke again makes me realise how lucky we were not to agree to pay Levy and Spurs 38m to make him our manager after Jose.

While there is a funny irony that PSG sacked Tuchel for being unable to take PSG to the UCL final, then in the same season Tuchel in on the brink of taking Chelsea to the UCL final.

Maybe it's the players, or maybe playing every week in a farmer's league means that they aren't being tested and pushed enough domestically to prepare them for the big games on the European stage.

It was pointed out that PSG's first 11 cost more than all of the players at the other 19 Ligue 1 sides.

It's the equivalent of Chelsea playing in the Championship, then wondering why they aren't prepared to take on Europe's elite.

2.) 28 Apr 2021
28 Apr 2021 22:18:55
In what way did Poch choke just then Shappy? Did he tell Navas to be useless or the wall to part like the Red Sea? Or Gueye to to get sent off?

PSG were fantastic in the first half. You’re so fickle.

3.) 28 Apr 2021
28 Apr 2021 22:29:36
Yh agreed fresh and when has he choked previously? Seemed to do a really good job at spurs.

{Ed014's Note - I think finishing 3rd in a two horse race when Leicester won it was a pretty big choke DSG.

4.) 29 Apr 2021
28 Apr 2021 23:41:51
I think its the players at Pari. Having an unbalanced squad with top class quality upfront but no real ball quality from behind, full backs especially. Their midfielders are not help attack either so they depend on individual brilliance and dribbles from Empampe Neymar and Di Maria. Additionally they are not a team and they don't press, they must have conceded 5 against us, 5 against Bayern and today City turned the game, I don't think it is coincidence. That said I don't like Pochetino too much either.
Pochetino likes physical presences like Gueye and left Herrera out. Herrera is the midfielder that helps a lot more offensively than the others. In the last two games at Ligue one he gave two great asists at Empampe and last season he was one of their best players in all games until the final.

5.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 06:56:57
Fresh

It is Shappys agenda to tell everyone that anyone other than Ole is a choker.

6.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 07:46:37
I believe Poch made Spurs relevant for 3-4 years. Took them to a champions league final as well.
He also plays attacking brand of football.

Mind you that he joined PSG in the middle of the season.

If Shappy calls this as choking, then how about Ole who choked in 5 semi-finals? embarassing exit from CL after spending hundreds of millions?

7.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 08:14:30
Tbf PSG always bottle it, wouldn't say its on Poch too much.

8.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 08:15:19
True Red Devil

Exactly, Ole has choked semi finals, but according to Shappy that is progress. Only Ole has the DNA. Only Ole can lead us to the promised land of course.

On the same basis we choked, Ole choked, against Leeds.

I looked back at something that came up on a reminder this morning, something I posted on another forum exactly two years ago. “We needed a goal, Ole had Martial on the bench, but put McTominay on instead. The tactics in the second half were baffling, looked like don’t lose tactics. ”

What has changed in two years since I posted that? Nothing.

Also whilst City are favourites to go through it is only half time.

9.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 08:40:24
If you read enough of shappys posts you know he will contradict himself eventually continuously.

10.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 09:10:29
Not a fan of neymar and Di maria is a martial type player- every now and again but Would loved to have seen Verrati in our midfield.
Red Man - Ole chokes every week - his decision making is so poor.

11.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 09:13:33
Pochettino while at Spurs chocked the title race when Leicester won it.

He choked the League cup final with Spurs.

He choked the UCL final with Spurs.

His team fell apart last night the moment the pressure was put on them. i. e. they choked.

Pochettino is paraded as a top manager, yet he has struggled to get any team across the line.

No doubt he is a good manager, personally I think he is a little overrated.

What I was really pointing out is that he is in no way worth the 38m it would have cost to get him from Spurs a few years ago.

12.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 10:44:01
Shappy, you really don't do yourself any favours with these posts. You just seem bitter. Pochettino has consistently had his team's be more than the sum of their parts. He has climbed the footballing ladder organically and been rewarded with better jobs as he's gone on.

Everything you have said about him there could be said about Ole, but only worse.

You give our manager a reprieve for everything. Man Utd shouldn't be challenging for top honours because our rivals are too good. Yet you're accusing Spurs of not delivering major trophies because why?

The mental gymnastics you go through to try and build Ole up is incredible. Poch is a choker at PSG even though he's only there 6 months.

Ole on the other hand needs another few hundred million and another few transfer windows before we see the best of him. Even though next season will be his 4th.

Our manager can't even get to a final and you parade his semi final loses like a badge of honour. Though Pochettino is branded a choker because he lost a European Cup final to a fantastic Liverpool side who were helped with a dodgy penalty.

Whether you like him or not, over rated or not. He has improved each team he's gone to. Is very well respected in the football world and will go onto manage the world's biggest clubs.

This is Oles only hope for a top job and he knows it. You call Pochettino a choker for losing title run ins and cup finals, yet are willing to die on the hill for Ole who doesn't beleive in winning trophies.

One question for you Shappy. If we were 1-0 down at half time, would it be acceptable to give up in the game?

Then why is it acceptable to give up halfway through a season?

13.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 11:09:20
Hasn’t Ole lost 4 semi finals? Can’t count 5 but maybe I’m wrong.

Mumbles, stop believing everything Ole says to the press and then crucifying him for it.

Shappy, agree on Poch, never been a massive fan and don’t see him as a top manager, very glad we didn’t pay what was needed for him, spurs would have been the only winners, no idea why this post became about Ole to be honest.

14.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 11:28:39
The double standards from Shappy is unbelievable.

Ole after 2 years has struggled to get past Champions League group stage.
Poch with a limited budget and squad reached the Champions League final with Spurs.

Jose couldn't last 2 years with Spurs which itself speaks volume how well Poch did exceeding expectations .

How you seen the brand of football between Ole and Poch? It's like apples and oranges.

Poch was linked to Madrid, Barcelona and other elite clubs for a reason.
Will any of the top sides be interested in Ole?
No chance!

15.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 11:54:25
GDS2, I certainly will hold Ole accountable when he speaks on behalf of Man Utd.

When asked about a title challenge, why couldn't he just say "there's half of the season left. We'll take each game as it comes and we'll see where we are come the end if the season"?

When asked about his inability to win trophies he could have said "we're getting close but we need to go up that extra gear and start getting to finals and winning trophies"

Everything the man says is about his own self preservation. His in game management is about not losing. Watch him grin ear to ear after a 0-0 draw.

He is petrified to say he's in a title race or that trophies mean everything, because he knows he'll struggle to deliver.

I can guarantee you that Ole would be happy as a clam being United manager finishing 4th for the next decade as long as he gets to park next to the managers parking spot at Carrington.

Everything about him is weak. He's the perfect stooge for the Glazers.

16.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 11:42:11
Mumbles, No team in the EPL has come back from a losing position to win a the match more times than United this season.

So clearly there is a good mentality in our squad to not give up and to keep fighting and even overcome their failings to win matches. One of the biggest complaints this season has been that if started matches like we finish them then we would have scored a fair few more and conceded a fair few less. We might even have a few more points.

The thing I find funny on this site is the entrenching of view points from posters on other posters.

It was a post that doesn't even concern our club, it was about a match played in a competition that we are no longer in.

I expressed a view that I don't rate Pochettino as highly as many others, that I think he has had a few good chances to win things and has choked every time.
I extended that to say that I am glad the club didn't spend 38m trying to get him out of Spurs. Which I think only a fool would argue would have been good business seeing as 8 months later Spurs sacked him and you could have got him for very little.

At no point did I compare him to our manager. Yet several posters such as yourself, Red Man and TrueRedDevil suddenly felt the need to make it about my support for the current manager.

I am completely capable of discussing things beyond our manager and have opinions about football that do not concern Ole.

It's funny as it comes across like you are just spoiling for a fight, you need to shout your opinion loud and clear but you NEED someone in opposition to you so you can do so.

I've actually consistently said that Ole has clear limitations and that he doesn't look like the right long term choice to take us full circle and back to the top. I actually agree with a lot of what people say and think about Ole.

He is tactically limited.

He does say some daft things.

I do wonder whether he has the right mentality to be a top manager.

However, I am also able to consider the context of a situation and don't let my heart rule my head. I don't let my frustrations and disappointment lead me to saying things in the heat of the moment, or things that in hindsight look silly.

In my opinion for Manchester United to win titles we will need a better manager. However, given the people at the clubs track record I have absolutely no faith in them getting the next manager appointment right. How can I when they are responsible for Moyes, sacked 8 months into a 6 year contract. LvG, and his crazy antics, he was more entertaining than his football. Sacked due to boring the fans to death AND failing to secure top 4. Jose Mourinho, a man whose style and reputation is the very antithesis of what Manchester United is supposed to be. He was sacked after he turned the entire club against him creating a toxic atmosphere and losing the dressing room. We then come to Ole, a guy who is likeable and has done a lot to fix the problems caused by Jose, but a man who should have stayed as a temporary solution and should have never been given the job full time. Yet a good run and a somewhat lucky win in Paris and the club jumped on him like a pack of doughnuts at a weightwatchers meeting.

Four times our club have had a chance to hire a good manager, and four times they have made the wrong choice. That's why until the people making these decisions change then I have no faith in them making the next appointment well. It'll probably be Southgate after he chokes at the Euro's this summer now Giggs has made himself unemployable.

However, beyond the clubs inability to spot a good manager I don't believe that even if by nothing else but dump luck they managed to hire a good manager was a good fit for the club. I don't believe they would give that manager the tools to succeed.

There are constant rumours about player recruitment with much debate and protestations from all sides about who makes the decisions and process behind the hiring of players. Every single ex-manager has said they were given players they didn't ask for and were denied players they requested. Which begs the question of who is running recruitment and why aren't they being held accountable for the 1 billion we have spent on transfer fees over the past 8 years with very little success.

Someone also makes strange decisions when it comes to player retainment. Giving big new contracts to players who are clearly not a part of the managers plan. Or keeping players against their will because they are marketable. Neither helps a manager when he has players who don't want to be there and players he doesn't want taking up space in the squad.

While there seems to be a clear lack of ambition by the club to kick on when we qualify for the UCL the amount the club spends on transfer drops by 50%, from around 150m to 70m.

Then there is the drop off in the wage bill which further highlights a lack of ambition. From having the second highest wage bill in world football to having the 6th. Over taken domestically by both City and Liverpool, with Chelsea nipping at our heels.

Finally we have the ESL which was the brain child of the Glazers and FSG over at Liverpool. Our club being one of the biggest drivers behind that idea is a huge stain on our club.

The club is rotten from the top to the bottom, they removed "football club" from the badge many years ago which is symbolic as we are not run as football or sporting institution anymore. We are a business, plain and simple and success is measured on the spreadsheet and not the football pitch.

Changing the manager will not change any of that, all it will do is hush up a few fans for another year or two. Until the shiny new manager can do no better than the guy before him. Then the fans will start to stamp their feet and the cycle will start again.

Ole has done somethings right and I choose to focus on that, better the devil you know and all that. There are no guarantees the next manager will give young players a chance as Ole has done. There are no guarantees that the next manager wouldn't see the return of the toxic atmosphere which Ole has dispelled.

While until there are serious changes higher up then the manager will have all the same limitations placed on him as Ole has. Relative success rewarded with a lack of backing to push on. Not being given the players they need, while being expected to work with the players they have no matter how poor or ill-suited they are.

It's not that I think Ole is the best manager for the job, but I just don't see another manager doing significantly better under the circumstances.

17.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 13:36:53
Why you attack Shappy guys? He only said that Pochetino is overrated. Thag doesn't mean he is not good. But ideally i wouldn't want him near my club as he is overated and prefers physical presence more than technical abilities and there are much better coaches out there.
That said the problems at Pari are deeper. Pari didn't play as a unit under Touchel and then Touchel goes at Chelsea and suddenly they look like a team. Pochetinos Spurs played as a team and then Pochetino goes to Pari and they play like individual stars.

18.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 14:19:54
Overated by whom herrera?

19.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 14:52:05
Because Herrera, I couldn't (allegedly) assault my girlfriend and then come on here and give Giggs abuse for (allegedly) assaulting his girlfriend. It's hypocritical.

Everything Shappy levelled at Pochettino can be levelled at Ole and then some.

Shappy, you move the goalposts so much you must have arms like Schwarzenegger. There was a slight vitriol element to damning of Pochettino because some fans would like him to replace Ole. You simply don't practice what you preach.

20.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 15:29:32
Mumbles, I think this is where it becomes clear you just have an agenda and want to make everything about Ole.

"Watching Pochettino choke again makes me realise how lucky we were not to agree to pay Levy and Spurs 38m to make him our manager after Jose. "

That is what I said in my OP about Pochettino. I never slated Poch, I literally just said his record didn't match up to the record 38m we would have had to pay to bring him to United.

If you want to argue that then I'm all ears, tell me why Pochettino was worth 38m? I'd genuinely love to hear why you think he was.

I then went on to say this:

"Pochettino is paraded as a top manager, yet he has struggled to get any team across the line.

No doubt he is a good manager, personally I think he is a little overrated. "

Again I'd love to see you argue I was wrong in any of that. Firstly he hasn't won anything so he has failed to get his teams across the line despite having several opportunities to do so.

I said he's a good manager, argue against it if you want, again I'm all ears.

The last part is I have said that I think (my opinion) that he is overrated. You want to debate that then cool. As clearly stated I have said its an opinion, and one based on the fact that many people in the press refer to him as a top manager despite him never winning anything. I think he is a good manager, but I just don't agree that he is one of the best in the world. While I certainly wouldn't want to see our club pay 38m to make him our manager.

Nothing I said was in relation to our manager, I never compared the two. It was you that decided to bring Ole into it, and it is you that seems to have an obsession with him.

As for everything I said about Pochettino could be said about Ole, well let's check it shall we?

I said Pochettino is a choker, yeah fair enough you could say the same about Ole. Although Ole does have a league title as a manager, he has also not lost two finals. But I'd say its fair to say they are both choke artists.

I said Pochettino is a good manager, so you think Ole is as well then. Cool.

I said Pochettino isn't worth 38m, I think we can all agree that Ole isn't worth 38m either.

I said Pochettino is overrated, I'm not sure you'll find many people who believe Ole is overrated. I've certainly not seen anyone calling him a top manager.

Not vitriol just opinion that I think he is overrated and not worth 38m. Like I said if you want to argue those points I'm all ears.

21.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 15:44:48
I agree Mumbles, Shappy moves the goalposts. But in this post i don't see it as a Pochetino vs Ole. We say that Pochetino is not so good (or he he is but overated too) and this has nothing to do with Ole.
Ken I think from everyone. When he was at Totenham People spoke about him like he was Pep.

22.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 16:59:23
You don't get to post in a vacuum Shappy. I'v been on your side of the argument over the years and against it. Unfortunately most things we post on this site are intrinsically linked. Every poster has a history and an identity.

You may have never mentioned Ole specifically, but you did mention how you are happy we didn't go to get him. Which brings us around that roundabout again where you think no manager could do a better job, and I wholeheartedly disagree.

You say Pochettino isn't worth £38 million. He was unemployed for awhile after that too .

You think Pochettino is overrate. I think he's a fantastic coach. I think he consistently had his teams higher up the table than they should have been. Done a fantastic job at Spurs as they didn't spend too much and consistently finished in the top 4 which is no mean feat all while moving into a new stadium.

His teams play attractive football, his teams work hard. He carries himself very well. He ticks the majority of boxes a top coach should tick.

He has shown with Southampton and Spurs that he can meet their expectations over a sustained period. We'll see how he does with P. S. G. He has a great future in management ahead of him. He is the perfect candidate in my eyes to take United forward, but unfortunately, we're still living with 1999 in our memories.

23.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 16:08:12
I don't think that's fair herrera. I don't feel everybody overates him at all.
I think he is a good coach never called for him to be appointed here.
I think shappy is fair when he says he is a good manager but has struggled to get his 1st trophy. He may not win the French league with psg this year.
The 38m is a load of made up nonsense story again click bait nonsense.
He didn't choke v Liverpool in the el final at all they were beaten by a really good Liverpool side.
Good manager his spurs and Southampton teams played a nice attacking entertaining style easy on eye but flattered a little imo.

24.) 29 Apr 2021
29 Apr 2021 19:39:05
Thats fine Ken mate. I don't see this as disagreement, i think we say the same thing more or less. I also agree that he didn't choke, he played against a better team and lost. Furthermore he didn't had a fully fit Kane in the final match and that's the only thing i can "accuse" him for. I think Kane should have not started because after injuries he wants 3-4 games to find form like our own Martial. He was one of the worst players at the final.