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11 Dec 2020 04:35:18
In response to the thread from Shappy down below.

First of all I would like to start by picking apart the nonsense by Mumbles about 'Klopp not having longevity'. You might want to educate yourself before posting such utter tripe, maybe try Wikipedia to get the gist of it?

7 years at Mainz, 7 years at Dortmund, 5 years at Liverpool with a further 4 years minimum. In that time he has won multiple league titles, made multiple champions league finals (and won), multiple domestic cups and continental trophies.

His time at Dortmund only tailed off through consistently losing his best players, often to their biggest rivals Bayern Munich. He seeked a new challenge and left by his own accord, he was never and has never been shown the door by any of his 3 clubs.

Now that we can file that statement under utter crap let's move on.

There's a reason that opposition fans banter United so much recently, and its not to do with you having a squad load of crap players. It's because anyone with a modicum of football intelligence knew from day 1 that Ole wasn't good enough. A failed Cardiff City manager is going to return Manchester United to their former glory? Wake up and smell the coffee, I know a lot of you have now!

Next point. If Manchester United employ a top class manager, maybe bring in 3 or 4 quality additions that fit that managers philosophy you can and should be competing. This current squad you have, although mixed with a few banter players such as Maguire, has some quality. Certainly a lot more than the one Klopp inherited in 2015.

I despise your guys club and nothing would please me more than you giving Ole a new 5 year deal because that would mean another 5 years of failure for use lot! Reality is if you guys had Klopp you'd be winning trophies, regardless of the Woodward and Glaziers stuff.

To move forward you need a new manager it really is that simple. Whether you care about a opposition fans opinion I don't know but I'm a football fan first and foremost and that's just what I see from the outside looking in.

TheUnbearableReds

1.) 11 Dec 2020 07:17:39
You were doing OK until you said we have a squad full of crap players.

Many of our squad would get into your squad. Not as many would make the first 11, but if you want to have digs at least make them reasonable.


2.) 11 Dec 2020 09:00:09
Wazza
Altho i don't agree there crap there far from consistent players like martial shaw pogba maguire are on 200k plus a week and give little to nothing in terms of consistency of there own form. I do feel as a utd fan we sometimes see our squad with our rose tints on. When reality seems to point to the fact we have a squad full of potentially great individuals that have little to no interest in putting the team first. Its almost were at united we've made it attitude and there getting paid however they perform.


3.) 11 Dec 2020 09:15:13
Wazza

Perhaps I am reading his post wrongly, but I thought he was referring to Shappy and others posts claiming the problem is with our squad of players. I didn’t think he was saying we have a squad full of crap players. I can’t disagree with what he said as a post.


4.) 11 Dec 2020 09:37:51
It isn't just a new manager, it's what goes on in training and away from games that needs to change. You can see a mile off people like AWB just aren't coached properly. He plays with a style that relies on a winger tracking back and picking up their fullback. We saw against RBL that he consistently pulls inside leaving Angelino the Grand Canyon to run into, he's expecting a winger to track back. We don't have that player. That type of thing, from a positional stand point needs coaching into him and while it's Ole's remit as a whole he needs better coaching staff in general. We have some quality players, they just need quality training! When I look man for man we are not too far away at all. I look at the Liverpool team and some of their players are bang average BUT they have an excellent management team and coaching staff and every player knows their role to the letter. You cannot tell me their midfield, on paper is better Uniteds, it just isn't but come game time you just a know their midfield will dominate ours due to work ethic and quality coaching. A full shake up is needed I'm afraid.


5.) 11 Dec 2020 10:46:37
Personally think OGS is the puppet corporate man the club wants as it’s figurehead. However I see no issue sacking all his coaches and getting a proper coaching set up in place!


6.) 11 Dec 2020 11:12:34
Red Man I read it as we do have a squad full of crap players but that's not the reason they banter us: "its not to do with you having a squad load of crap players"

W16 you have obviously picked out out our average players on big wages to backup your statement, and I agree with what you are saying.

However we have some great players, as well as others with the potential to be great.

Henderson, AWB, Tuanzebe/ Mengi coming through, arguably Telles, DVDB, Bruno, Garner, Rashford, Greenwood, plus a good number of under 18's with a lot of potential. There's enough first team players there to mention, with the ability to have us positioned further up the league. I don't look art any of those names and think they've reached their peak. Even McTominay, who has been fairly consistent under Ole, seems to have gone backwards this season, which is a shame because he could be a great player for us.

Klopp would certainly get a tune out of this squad, and that's what I was saying in response to Shappy's post. What we have now is much better than what Klopp took over.

Unfortunately I just don't see the likes of Tuanzebe, Mengi, AWB, Garner, Pellestri et al improving under our current coaching setup. If we don't change things soon it will be another case of a player (s) not fulfilling their potential at Manchester United, which is in contrast to our club's values.


7.) 11 Dec 2020 11:21:40
The important aspect we lack is identity.

Do we really have a plan going on the pitch?
All we see predominantly is players playing like eleven strangers most of the time.

The last goal against WestHam in which we played one touch-two touch football and Rashford scoring was a thing of beauty.
Those types of pattern of play is what most of our fans are longing for.

Klopp is playing several youngsters past few weeks and the performance level doesn't drop off much because they have a clear identity and structure in their play style.


8.) 11 Dec 2020 11:22:32
your forgetting klopp also has a relegation on his CV.


9.) 11 Dec 2020 13:36:48
Bolger2

Yes, but has since significantly proven just how good he is in a real league and is not comparable to Ole.


10.) 11 Dec 2020 13:59:35
It's quite a bizarre contradiction in actions. On the one hand the club is investing heavily in young talent. On the other hand the club is not investing in quality coaching to make the best of the talent.

Welcome to Manchester Utd!


11.) 11 Dec 2020 16:28:17
UnbearableReds. My point being both Klopp and Pep have not stayed and dominated over a long term. Klopps methods at Dortmund won him back to back titles and then his last season he finished 7th.

My point is, the way Liverpool play and Klopps management style, it's not conducive to long term domination. Pep is similar, reaches amazing heights with teams then leaves when they slightly decline. Man City seems to be the slightly different in that he's staying longer but his team doesn't look nearly as good as they did over the last few years.

My point was that if you United can build a team that is ready to challenge in a year or two. That would be the best time to avoid peak Liverpool and City because history as shown a decline when they reach the top.

And don't be using tripe as a derogatory word. Tripe is beautiful!

{Ed001's Note - was it Klopp's management style or the fact that his best players were constantly sold out from under him? I think you will find it was the latter. Not sure how you can talk about dominating with regard to him when he has only managed two teams previously. One a second tier team that he turned into a comfortable top flight team and the other were bankrupt when he took over and he still managed to win two titles with them. I think people are forgetting what state Dortmund were in before Klopp and what a miracle it was to even compete for things, let alone win things.

He is certainly nothing like Pep and to suggest a comparison is shockingly ill-informed. They are nothing alike at all in their management style and their style of play only has one aspect alike - intensity. Pep is a micro-manager who has an exact plan and is constantly trying to get players to play to that plan. It has to be followed to the letter. Klopp sends his players out with a plan but they are also coached to think for themselves and look to change things as they go. They are asked to adapt and overcome. There are also other things different. Klopp in the last game was applauding one of the youngsters for trying something, for instance, even though it never came off. Pep doesn't do that, he starts explaining to them what they should have done.}


12.) 11 Dec 2020 16:55:05
MancMan, it's almost like the people running the club are amateurs and don't know what their doing.

It's one of the reasons that I don't hold out a huge amount of hope that a change of manager will change much. We all hope that they will make the right choice and bring in the right manager. Yet their track record reads:

Replacing our most successful manager of all time with David Moyes.

Sacking Moyes and replacing him with a manager who hadn't really been successful in 15 years.

Replacing LvG with a manager who didn't really want to be here and while a top manager was stylistically a terrible fit.

Sacking Jose after realising they have made three terrible appointments.

Bringing in Ole as a temporary manager, then caving in when he does well to hire him despite his lack of experience or track record.

Currently our board are 4 for 4 with terrible and poorly appointed managers.

So while I hope that next time they bring in a Nagelsmann, a Marco Rose or a Jesse Marsch any of which would be my choice. Or even go for a Simeone, Pochettino or Conte, managers that have actually had success and proven themselves good managers at this level.

I would not be surprised though if they hired Giggs, Southgate or Allerdyce. Either that or put Carrick in charge temporarily then when he wins a few games make him the permanent manager.

I have zero faith in this board to do the right thing, and only hope that they stumble across the right thing by accident more than design.


13.) 11 Dec 2020 17:44:37
My post was not having a go at either Klopp or Pep. Klopp is the best manager in the world right now in my opinion, you could drop him into any team and he would improve them.

My original post was to Shappy who was pointing out a 5 year plan to win a league. I said we shouldn't really be more than 2 years away from challenging for top honours with the right people involved.

In fact I said that our best chance to win a title would be when both City and Liverpool dip because of their style of play. It's very hard to retain titles and incredibly harder to win 3 on the bounce.

Inbearblered seems to think I'm saying Klopp was lucky or will fail. That's not the point I was trying to get across. Any team playing intense style off football will always have periods when it doesn't work. Maybe players burning out, desire, call it what you will. Hopefully United could have been in a position to challenge when the league could be won with 85 points.

Liverpool are a much more stable club and maybe only 1 or 2 teams in world football right now who could turn their players heads. Dortmund was a different animal but in his last season they finished 7th. The wheels came off.

Do I think for one second that that will happen at Liverpool or City, no. Do I think they'll hit the crazy heights of 97-100 points most years? No. And when the bar drops, United should be capable of putting up a challenge.

{Ed001's Note - the wheels didn't come off, that was the whole point that was made to FSG by Liverpool's analysis department when they recommended Klopp. Dortmund were incredibly unlucky that season and just about everything that could go wrong went wrong. They hit the woodwork a ridiculous amount of times etc. It was nothing like you are suggesting.}


14.) 11 Dec 2020 18:14:09
Ok well then the wheels stayed on and they rolled to 7th. Like unbearable red, I was not having a go at either managers credentials. Clearly pointing out that if United are too succeed then we have to ready to pounce when their form dips (because we're miles away when both teams are 100%) . Unbearable seemed to take it like I disregarded everything Klopp has done. Not the point at all I was trying to get across.


 

 

 

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24 Jan 2021 20:45:39
Congrats on the win, made us pay for our mistakes. Now allow me to be sick in my mouth 🤮😁.

TheUnbearableReds

 

 

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22 Jan 2021 15:58:16
No Mumbles mate I still feel the same way. You're jumping the gun a bit there pal. But if you want to write us off when we have our first real bad patch of form in 3 years go for it.

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22 Jan 2021 11:14:21
It really is bad at the moment 🤦‍♂️😁.

We deserve all the banter we get.

I've seen quite a few still on Oles case hard recently, and whilst I still don't think he's the man to return you to former glory. You're winning more often than not right now.

I think this is a season that people should forget style and just embrace winning.

From my personal experience this season every single game is a absolute slog.

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09 Dec 2020 15:55:11
Okay Wallace, Okay 😂.

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09 Dec 2020 15:16:42
You might win the most points in 2020 title but that's about it mate.

Seriously a title race? So are Southampton in a title race too seen as they're above you?

You're a 2nd rate European team as you have been for the past few years it really is that simple.

TheUnbearableReds