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21 Nov 2021 23:22:42
Looking at the site it is interesting we see speculation, rumours, hear say etc.
All this creates good banter and frustration along with friendships.
Since SAF retired leaving, an aged team that had managed to land the premiership in a season when all other teams were in transition. We have bounced from manager to manager each having failings but some delivering a trophy or two . In that time we have had one CEO that the owners have been pleased with his funding management . But very poor on the football knowledge front that we all see especially giving Ole and his staff longer contracts .
Too much leaning towards SAF, history and sentiment has distorted decisions and not moving fwd. into today's football technical needs.
Unfortunately the owners do not see this as they very very rarely attend matches so not feeling the football being offered live .
Many rumours of different managers have been offered on this site but realistically I don't think anything will change this season.
Reasons for this are .
New CEO being appointed end of year.
Too costly and difficulty to employ managers from other clubs in mid season.
The option of ZZ is not realistic with wife not wanting to move to Manchester. Plus if PSG job became available he would be gone .
One or two players will possibly move on in Jan on loan but many will remain happy to sit on the bench until contracts are exhausted .
My conclusion is this is MU today on a roller coaster for rest of season Ole is safe until end of season or when 4th place is not possible .
1.) 22 Nov 2021 11:40:03
Hello The Fox, where have you been hiding the last day, OGS is gone ?.
2.) 22 Nov 2021 12:49:21
Erm fox you do know that ole is sacked, must of been on the moon.
3.) 22 Nov 2021 13:52:48
I think you are the only person on the planet who hasn’t heard Fox.
The fox's banter posts with other poster's replies to The fox's banter posts
02 Nov 2023 10:03:17
Hi to all suffering MU fans like myself.
Decided to look realistically at results over last season and one obvious startling aspect is we can't score goals .
Last season I am sure we would have been in the same position as we are now had it not been for Rashford covering the cracks, unfortunately sadly missing this year and expectations on a new 20 year old CF is too great .
The question from last season and this, is it poor tactics for us not to dominate games creating many scoring chances?
Do not remember any thrashing's of any team last season our defense was spot on that created wins by the odd goal with at times a lot of luck.
We fall back to questions over players capability that reverts back to poor transfer decisions .
Tactics versus players capability and acceptance of managers requirements.
The final big question is obviously team spirit and togetherness from owners all the way down to players that is drastically missing .
One positive note manager has brought some discipline into squad that obviously shone the light on some players throwing teddy bears out of prams.
How ever has this caused many of the squad to be against these rules only showing it on the pitch by playing for themselves and not to managers tactics?
Basically I am not surprised where we are cracks were covered over last season ?
Suggest a new manger like the past would have short improvement than we would be back to square one .
Best example is Martial survived all managers so far and fails to perform but is still here!
But we can't afford another manager and with the possible part takeover it's not going to happen.
We have to accept ETH is here for this season but what a big hole to dig out of !
Finally nothing will change until management above manger and coaches is completely restructured with experienced knowledgeable football proven experts that have a footballing strategy for the whole club .
1.) 02 Nov 2023 10:33:04
Goal difference 21/ 22 season, exactly zero. good 22/ 23 season, just 15. good so far 23/ 24 season, -5
We don't create chances, we don't score goals.
2.) 02 Nov 2023 11:09:58
I remember watching an interview with Sam Allardyce many moons ago when he was doing well with Bolton. He went into detail out playing the percentages and drilled into the players POMO (point of maximum opportunity) . Now the stats may have changed in 25 odd years but the majority of goals are scored from crosses or balls out wide into the box. He hated players shooting from long distances as the data shows you're more than likely going to miss. I think he fined his players like 50 quid if they shot from outside the box and missed.
Pep talked about building a successful team. He said in its simplest terms "just sign players who don't give the ball away". Haalands second goal on the weekend where he hangs at the back post for a free header after the ball is worked out wide, City have been scoring this type of goal since Pep arrived. If it wasn't Sterling popping up for a tap in it was Mahrez or Gundogan etc.
Long story short is we don't do things that point to any sort of plan. The majority of the team are not comfortable with that ball in tight spaces. How many times do you see Dalot, Lindelof, Maguire etc just launch the ball into the channels to no one?
Our midfielders are incredibly wasteful too. I can't remember the last time we dominated the midfield by controlling possession. Our maverick in Bruno is wasteful because he tries the killer ball so often, I can live with that at times, but not every time you have the ball. In the City game the ball was rolled to his feet about 20 yards from goal and tries some flick that went straight to a defender.
Our wide players bar Garnacho don't actually know how to be wingers. Rashfords lack of work rate and his ability to just run down blind alleys is infuriating. Anthony's inability to beat a man and consistently play the ball back centrally means it's ridiculously hard to break down a low block. So you're left with a lonely Hojlund making run after run not knowing when a ball might come in.
We are a team that plays against themselves first and foremost. Our full backs get into good positions only to play the ball back in field and narrow the play. Our inverted wingers only have eyes for goal but statistically only terrorise the poor fans behind the goal.
We defend like we're an ultra attacking team, we attack like we're ultra defensive. A bunch of players who consistently make the wrong decisions on the pitch game after game, manager after manager and like the club off the pitch, these things catch up on you eventually.
Long story short, get big Sam in for some training in the art of POMO.
3.) 02 Nov 2023 11:29:52
Jeez
I spent all summer banging on about this problem based on last season, about how important scoring goals was and what we needed to do. As usual told I talked nonsense.
I have posted for many weeks about how we don’t cross a ball and it appears a tactical decision. Spoken about how we don’t manipulate full backs, create space. I said how one striker wasn’t enough. I said we have a 6ft 3 forward and don’t cross to him.
It’s is biting us on the backside, our manager must have thought only one inexperienced forward was what was needed, so tactically this has to fall on him. How many times a game do we get in a crossing position and recycle.
It’s a mess of ETH own creation and I don’t think the players believe in it either.
4.) 02 Nov 2023 11:47:56
Creative players need to be given the opportunity to try and fail, but nothing's coming off for ours atm. Get Neto in while we're at it, one of the top performing players in the league right now in terms of scoring and creating.
If they do remove ten Hag, we'd probably end up in a caretaker manager scenario again. Would love to see the likes of Keane or Neville come in and see if they can do any better.
5.) 02 Nov 2023 11:57:20
Spenno
LOL Keane will Murder so many players in this squad. They would not do well with him. Neville's track record as a manger is very poor. Might as well give it to someone like Scholes but not sure he even has coaching badges.
6.) 02 Nov 2023 12:04:08
Redman
Whys is it a mess of his own creation and please don't start with the Kane debate. Please explain what we should have done.
7.) 02 Nov 2023 12:06:27
We all know goalscoring has been an issue for a while, mainly it seems we are not clinical enough in front of goal.
The difference this season is the normally decent defence has collapsed, from the DM back to the CB.
8.) 02 Nov 2023 12:11:39
Good post Mumbles!
Red Man - EtH is struggling but these players are a disgrace.
Do you honestly believe that if EtH played Rashford on the RW and asked him to cross the ball for Hojlund he’d actually do it?!
He might for a couple of games but then he’d start moaning that he wants to play on the left so he can cut in side to shoot and score more goals! He’d complain that he doesn’t like playing on the right and crossing the ball is hindering his natural game and goal scoring stats.
I agree it’s perverse to sign a CF and then not provide them with any service but these players are a joke. They are only interested in themselves, protecting their own interest and brands!
Look at Maguire for example, he came out on International duty and actually quoted his own win percentage! “My record under EtH speaks for itself. I haven’t started as many games as I’d like but my win percentage when I’ve played is ridiculously high” This win percentage nonsense is obviously carefully manipulated to suit his own agenda and in no way represented the entire truth. He conveniently omitted all the context. Well he’s started against two decent teams and we’ve shipped 6 games without reply on home turf. This is the mentality of these players, this is a former captain of the Club. This is a player that refused to leave in the summer because he wanted a pay off. Some may argue that he was entitled to that money but here’s a player that was happy to sit on the bench at Man Utd rather than play football. We want players that love the Club, that are self aware with elite mentality. Is any surprised we got hammered against City with Maguire and Evans at CB. Is anyone surprised we got hammed against Newcastle with Maguire and Lindelof at CB. We’ve been getting hammered with Maguire and Lindelof for years!
I say no manager can get a tune out of these players. Short term bounce, maybe, but we’ll eventually find their level again. I’d sell every single player before I’d sack EtH. This is just another example of the players again turning on yet another manager!
9.) 02 Nov 2023 12:25:56
Redman who told you that you were talking nonsense when you said goal scoring was an issue?
I can't think of one person who didn't think that was the case.
I can't think of anybody who thought we scored enough goals and didn't need a cf.
Don't know of anybody that wanted to keep martial as back up. You do know we tried to get rid of him in order to bring in another. Buts its not quite as simple as that.
The planning all summer was flawed not sure who takes the responsibility for that.
10.) 02 Nov 2023 12:26:54
We have played Rashy on the right a few times in recent games to accommodate Garnacho. He had a few one on ones too, but flunked them. Just not his natural position.
11.) 02 Nov 2023 12:38:47
It's a good point DLIB about a new manager getting a different tune out of these players, I agree and I don't think they would long term.
Just taking City as another example as they're winning everything. Pep has often been criticised for his some what mechanical build up play, when going back to his Barcelona days. The constant merry-go-round of passing until they find the right moment to pounce can be quite boring as it's so efficient.
Players are human and will resort to muscle memory. Managers like Pep do drill after drill after drill so as a player you don't have to think what to do next, it's instinctual.
Our players have those instincts too but unfortunately for us, they're very bad habits to get into to. Like you said, Rashford just wants to cut inside, Anthony will get as far down the wing as possible, cut back in and play the ball centrally. Bruno will try a Hail Mary Hollywood pass because that's what they're used to.
When these players are pressed or in trouble on the pitch they resort to these instincts, normally its counterintuitive to actually scoring goals.
12.) 02 Nov 2023 13:37:57
Repetition Repetition Repetition.
But you have to be open to learning and working hard. You need to want to learn. You need to be open to being thought and be want to move out of your comfort zone.
Some is eth at fault more is the players at fault imo.
These players at not good at so many things. They are only interested in themselves.
No manager will turn this kit into a team.
Structure 1st
Firewall 2nd
Manager will be addressed in time but the other 2 need to be addressed 1st imo or else you are putting the horse before the cart.
13.) 02 Nov 2023 14:16:55
Goalscoring has become more of a problem as the standard of footballers in the EPL has increased.
The problem is that our players lack the technical skills, and tactical intelligence to play through teams.
They cannot receive the ball in tight spaces without giving it away. They cannot move the ball quickly because they don't have the skills to play one touch football or the intelligence to know where to play the ball before receiving it.
It means we are slow and latheragic in build up play. That gives time for the opposition to get back in shape or no reason to step out of shape in the first place.
Patterns of play etc are pointless without the ability to move the ball quickly and efficiently. The plan might be to move the ball from player A to player B to create space for Player C to move into to receive the ball either between the lines or behind the opposition.
But if you move the ball too slowly then the space will never open up. Which means by the time player B has the ball and is ready to make the pass to player C the space isn't there and instead they have to play another backwards or sideways pass.
Does that sound familiar, slow inane sideways and backwards passing?
Isn't that the issue LvG had, and Jose, and Ole, and Ralf and the same issue with EtH?
It's not that these managers don't know how to coach these patterns of play, or a specific style of play. It's that these players cannot play that way to a high enough standard because they simply aren't good enough.
Which is why every manager has ended up relying on individuals doing something to open up teams and create chances. Which puts them at the mercy of those players form.
The standard of players and particularly the coaching in the EPL is at an all time high. That means teams are better technically and tactically. They defend better as a team and are have higher quality individuals in their teams. That makes it much harder to open them up with a bit of individual skill. Especially if they know that is the only way you can create chances against them. We are easy to defend against because we are tactically limited and predictable.
That won't change until we have better players right throughout the team, not just in forward areas. Højlund is a good player added to the forward area, but it could have been Kane or anyone else. If you can't get the ball to those players at the right time in the right spaces then their impact is severely limited. That means more technically and tactically gifted midfielders and defenders.
Quite simply any player in your side who can't control the ball in tight spaces, be press resistant, play with their head up, one touch passing etc then they bring the ability of the whole side down.
A team is like a heard, only as quick as it's slowest member, and the predictors will target the weakest. That's where your patterns of play breakdown, that's where you lose the ball, that's where the defensive issues you have to deal with stem from.
That's why it's about more than just having 11 great players. Why you need a whole squad because every time you play a weaker player you bring down the quality of the whole team and not just one position.
Which is why when we are having to play 4th or 5th choice options in some positions why we look so absolutely god awful. The fact that we have 4 or 5 players starting who aren't first choice just absolutely decimates the quality of the team as a whole.
14.) 02 Nov 2023 17:00:45
I don't like getting blown away at home off city, it shouldn't be quite that easy to beat us, but to be fair I've seen them do it to way better teams than us .
However we were blown away at home again last night, not off city, it was newcastle, it was newcastle though without numerous players, too many to list .
They rocked up and thought, the 5th and 6th choice Centre backs will be just fine for this game as will a load of others who rarely play .
They looked together, well coached hard to beat and with a plan of attack.
Its easy to say a manager duznt have the right tools to work with, theirs had dummet and kraft at centre back but we rarely lay a glove on them and made them look like Beckenbauer and Bobby Moore.
There may be lots of factors why we are as bad as we are at the moment but they shouldn't be an excuse as to why on the actual pitch it looks like unorganised nothingness.
15.) 02 Nov 2023 17:31:47
I lost you at 'suffering'.
Take a look around the world, and still tell me you are 'suffering' because a group of overpaid hacks are not providing you with the entertainment you have become accustomed to.
Humanity is knackered if you truly are suffering from this rubbishshow that is Manchester United.
Have some perspective people.
15 Oct 2023 10:32:00
Here we are Oct 23 eleven months after owners declared they needed to raise external cash injection or full sale of club.
It's obvious now the aim was to hold on to ownership unless an offer possibly doubling what actually the club is worth.
I am a simple man and my understanding is that if SJR is granted 25% to purchase shares from the glazers and open market funds are raised .
But where do these funds go?
From the open market automatically goes to the owners of the shares so lost to the club.
The money to Glazers is able go into the club!
My understanding is that club over the years has gained value and the shares still owned by the Glazers are worth far more then when purchased thus not a cash loss to them.
They will still obtain dividends on an annual basis .
SJR is a proven clever business man so what ever deal he lands will be positive for his company and club.
But what sort of mess does he join with the media predicted 25% especially from his statement a few years back that he would not invest in MU when the management waste funds on some bad transfers.!
The whole club in reality seems in limbo or dare I say on a gradual spiral down .
Will SJR want changes in the UK management team?
Owners I don't think have visited in over five years because of demonstrations by fans that want desperately Glazers to leave .
Stadium and training ground planned improvements shelved.
Local management handling of the Anthony and Greenwood situations causing staff issues.
Stadium with leaking roof, toilets overflow 90s style amenities has now removed it from international selection that was once second choice to Wembley!
Resorted to having to obtain loaned players because of poor management of previous contracts and transfers so limiting situation because of FFP.
Recruited unreliable aging players because of injury or inconsistency on long term expensive contracts .
Now over £1billion in debt. Increasing on a daily basis.
Second highest net transfer spend to Chelsea in the last five years .
The U21 team sits in bottom half of league where once we were always near top.
Several managers have passed thro the door leading to a theory that it does not matter what top manager comes in they will struggle with management who are unable to plan long term.
The good news is the women's team in this time have progressed and are now a force to be recognized.
Some task to sort if you only have 25% ownership when you are used to having top proven business people around you that brings success .
1.) 15 Oct 2023 12:46:59
A full sale and and an injection of capital was needed. As you said, the club has been slowly rotting for a long time from the inside out. Iv written at length about Sir Jim's intentions and the continuation of feeding our debt.
Jim has played the only hand he had. He can't go toe to toe with Qatar with wealth so he's getting into bed with the Glazers.
Red Man was commenting further down that this could get toxic very quickly and I wholeheartedly agree. If Ratcliffe comes onto the board and nothing changes, then he'll lose whatever support he has for when he tries to purchase a full stake in the club.
The main issues here are the Glazers won't invest a single penny of their own money into the club. As a club we're leveraged up to the gills. With Jim on board we don't have a lot a maneuverability in terms of finances, so here are my major concerns.
Will we just continue to service the interest payments on the mountain of debt?
Will Jim be willing to put his own money into the club whilst he only owns 25%?
Is there an agreement in place to purchase the remainder of stock and a future date?
And sporting decisions. The club needs a vision from the top down and the Glazers just aren't in any way capable of emplying people who make sporting decisions first.
A full sale was desperately needed. We're now going to possibly have many different figures arguing about the direction of the club.
It's incredibly disappointing to not have the shackles taken off the club, but even with all my concerns, Rathcliffe is not better than the Qataris, but he his better than an investment fund/ vulture fund acquiring a stake in us.
Let's give him the benefit of the doubt because if he does come in, he'll want the fans onside quick which can only be good news for the club.
2.) 15 Oct 2023 13:16:34
Good posts Mumbles and The fox.
3.) 15 Oct 2023 14:13:08
Said all along SJR would be a nightmare because he not got enough money, now it’s 10 times worse if he only buys 25% because he only sees it as a cheap marketing vehicle for the Ineos brand no other reason at all.
Anyone who thinks any of his 1.5 billion purchase will be put into the club from the Glazers is beyond cuckoo that will be for the glazers alone, they will have earned good money since original purchase outlay and still have the majority of the club in shares, that’s fantastic business on there part, they are not as silly as they look! SJR knows 25% is not any good, but is very cheap worldwide marketing tool, so that’s an investment on Ineos side hence why he always wanted a EPL club he don’t really care who it was just that united is the biggest marketing tool and can play the supporter card too…
Better the devil you know, now if this goes ahead could have 2 devils, lots of infighting and the club in the middle, it’s a terrible day if this does happen, a total nightmare and S…storm brewing.
4.) 15 Oct 2023 14:26:01
To be fair the under 21s aren't doing as well because a good few of the young players are in the senior squad playing. which is the main target of the under 21s.
5.) 15 Oct 2023 23:45:03
Sad times,
What do you mean he’s not got enough money? He’s worth £28b and is the richest man in the uk.
6.) 16 Oct 2023 07:03:31
GDS
Assets at £28bn, but it’s important to understand if are they liquid assets or how easily enough money can be realised quickly. Why is he utilising Ineos, is many billions of his wealth his shareholding in his company, that if he realises he loses control. Liquidity is important here.
7.) 16 Oct 2023 07:12:36
GDS2. Exactly what I said he does not have enough money, clearly you just looked at the times rich list and for your information he is 2nd richest supposedly in U. K., but the times figure you are looking at is share prices of the company stock held, which would plummet like a stone in any large sell off, plus would have huge amounts of debt on that figure, his personal wealth is 5-6 billion reportedly. Clearly business figures are not your strong point!
But 1.4 billion is very cheap for the marketing power for the Ineos brand around the world, everyone knows Man Utd not everybody knows Ineos plus the buying 1.4 billion which will probably be serviced by loans and not from his personal wealth.
Then you get the problems of sabre rattling when 2 big companies have different ideas and public will probably back SJR even if he is totally wrong because the Glazers are hated, it will be a total shambles, but the Glazers will be happy they have there initial investment back with interest, they still own majority and loan repayments are serviced by the club, they don’t have nothing really to lose, great business by them!
8.) 16 Oct 2023 07:54:44
Great piece of business by the glazers. Its a good outcome for the club also in my opinion.
9.) 16 Oct 2023 07:59:49
Redman
Are you saying someone, who is worth 28, probably more as they never get these things right, cannot put together an additional 2 bill. You hatred for the glazers clouds any clear thinking and you want to convince yourself and others of all the negatives. Elon Musk sold over 25 bill of tesla stock last year. God knows how much Bezos has sold over the years or gates or any owners of major stocks in publicly listed companies.
Ineos is a major owner of sporting franchises and its a vertical in their business. This is not some personal vanity project for him. This is very serious guy reading what's out there by people who have dealt with him and extremely successful and self made. In contrast the glazers who are living off what their dad built and incompetent imo.
Even the supporters trust are asking for clarifications before saying anything. Its unfortunate you have decided to wash your hands off this even before the guy gets involved.
I am optimistic and believe this is the beginning of the end for the glazers and you get a local guy who grew up in the area and supported the club take control. Maybe in a few years people will look at it as united staying true to its ethos and being state owned is not for us.
I don't understand people questioning SJR ability to bring positive change even before he gets involved when no one questions the qualifications of the Qatari investor besides being able to write a check.
Finally when people talk about glazers being greedy its an emotional reaction imo and most who owns a business and were looking at selling or diluting would be doing the same whether we like it or not.
My own experience when selling a business like this, you hire external parties, who are special-ist in your sector to provide a valuation for the business and not some internal head in the Cloud number. Sheikh Jasem never agreed/ met the valuation and SJR did, that's all and we move on.
10.) 16 Oct 2023 08:30:22
Perhaps if SJ had offers to buy 69% instead of a 100% he may have bought the club.
11.) 16 Oct 2023 11:52:54
Oh god sad times is Maze again isn’t it, should have known. Getting silly now.
12.) 16 Oct 2023 15:54:55
A great post ahmad.
01 Oct 2023 08:50:16
Patience seems to be forgotten by many of our readers from the various quotes being written on these pages about our present manager and team.
Luckily I am able to remember that our two most famous mangers in Sir Mat Busby and Sir Alex Ferguson each had two to three years before they landed a trophy!
History tells you the success they had was achieved under a solid management structure with the advantage of being able to purchase top players from other clubs with relatively ease being the major club with cash.
Today the picture is totally different other clubs have greater financial clout resulting in that it's nearly impossible for MU to recruit top players.
We are all aware the structure and ownership is in turmoil making the task for ETH that more difficult .
We all need to give ETH patience over the next few years but don't expect to get back to the days of Sir Mat Busby and Sir Alex Ferguson who were the Pep of today.
These types of managers are rare and only grace football clubs once in a while for a long periods so creating history.
We have been lucky having had two that were able to dominate with continuous successful rebuilding .
Pressures are far greater today with the continuous vast media outlets magnifying players external issues that complicates the managers decisions. Just imagine George Best antics displayed with todays vast media outlet even on these pages alone!
I repeat a previous quote by someone ETH has won one trophy, FA cup final and finished third in first season in charge under ownership and management turmoil.
Yes some tactical changes are needed to accommodate the players available but that's ETH learning curve just like both Busby and Ferguson had to in early years.
Just sit tight and see where we are in two years time with management, ownership and hopefully successful ETH and team .
1.) 01 Oct 2023 09:08:07
The Fox ???
Well said. I like you am old enough to remember those very different times in the history of our club.
2.) 01 Oct 2023 09:22:04
A wise post from the Fox.
Unfortunately though, those dynasties mentioned were formed from a solid base with everyone singing off the same hymn sheet so to speak. We haven’t got that with the Glazers still in control. Until those parasites leave the club we will continue in this vicious circle. New owners, new direction. Everything starts with the man or men at the top whether we care to admit it or not. The culture starts with them.
Full support for ETH and the lads, but those lizards need to go.
3.) 01 Oct 2023 09:23:13
I agree with what I understand to be your main sentiment ie that Ten Hag should be given at least three seasons.
Generally things are going in the right direction but I'm still not totally convinced by Ten Hag.
Strangely, I think he is stronger with his off field management than his on field management which I frequently find baffling in many ways eg team selection, slow to make changes, the kind of substitutions he makes.
I still think he's the right guy for now and I'm happy to cut him some slack to allow for him learning on the job after a big change from Ajax.
I'd like him to be more decisive with the team and less willing to keep picking players who don't put in enough effort.
4.) 01 Oct 2023 10:12:43
It is not time to fire ETH. However ETH does need to improve. My posts are going on Discussion or Match posts, but in essence he needs to improve to survive. This isn’t Holland or Ajax and people will question buying familiarity and showing favouritism, especially with poor results.
SAF was a great leader, he survived initially because I believe he identified the issues and shared the vision of what he was going to do. I sense ETH has leadership skills, especially how he has dealt with Sancho, so it is vital he shares the vision, gets buy in right now and starts making logical decisions that his players understand and the board, supporters. He will have to survive an ownership change, I suspect and that will be a massive hurdle. The time is not now to jettison him, but he needs to improve some areas.
5.) 01 Oct 2023 10:23:09
I agree Fox. As I said below I remember Busby and the average teams we had throughout the 70’s and 80’s. And I have often lamented that many (not all! ) on this page do not realise that Fergie was 1 game away from the sack when they have been pulling the carpet out from under previous managers after a couple of average seasons.
But the financial spectre is the overriding issue here. I know to some extent its relative but the money involved these days does not give teams the luxury of allowing a team to flounder too much to the extent it could be fighting at the lower end of the leagues.
As soon as that starts to look a possibility the bigwigs twitch and given the potential losses who can blame them?
I am sure in 20 years time City and Liverpool fans will be pulling their managers to pieces because they are 6,7 in the league and winning nothing, wishing for the good old days!
Chins up. Let’s see how we are going when we have the full squad back and ETH the players he wants.
COYR!
6.) 01 Oct 2023 10:30:28
The biggest mistake ETH made was cancelling the Rangnick agreement.
I put that down to ETH’s lack of experience in managing a club of this size. It’s difficult enough managing a “mega club”. Add to that all of the off field issues, the ownership, the hundreds of millions wasted, the rotten and stinking attitude of many players, and it makes the job impossible for even the greatest managers.
ETH thought he could do it on his own. He can’t. He needs help. But I think he’s shown that he’s too stubborn to ask for help.
All that said I still think he’s the right manager. He needs to focus entirely on coaching the team to play a certain way and win. The club needs to identify that a proper sporting director is needed. An experienced head of recruitment is needed. And the coach needs to coach.
I don’t think the club will ever realise that under the current ownership, and this manager will likely be gone before any takeover is completed.
If and when that happens, I’m not sure I’d be willing to keep spending my money to attend games. A different manager under the same ownership will only end one way.
There is a common denominator here. Most of us can see it.
7.) 01 Oct 2023 11:44:29
He needs to stay but it feels like he needs some help. Wazza is right, cancelling Rangnick seems misguided.
He keeps picking players who are letting him down, Bruno as captain is very odd to me but as Ole said, there were some who didn't want it.
I have been a huge Rashford fan but I have run out of patience, he is massively inconsistent and I would happily move him on if there was a very big offer.
I'm done with Bruno, another who disappears when it matters, and Antony is yet to show anything that suggests he is a United player. I can live with the defence when we don't have injuries, our issue continues to be an inability tonscore goals, an issue we failed to address.
Of course we don't know what has been happening behind the scenes but the transfer business in Summer was staggeringly inept. Until we get professionals running the club, I don't see much changing.
8.) 01 Oct 2023 15:11:21
Rashford back to the unhappy soul, he clearly got a problem clearing his mind, very strange why he let's things get to him so badly and appears demons take over!
Even our shiny new forward was getting fed up with the lack of opportunities coming his way yesterday, although in saying that he got a hell of a lot to learn in what runs he makes when and where it’s shocking that anyone thought we could go into a new season with all pinned on him…before everyone starts banging on saying I’m writing him off, NO I am saying it’s too much to ask a unproven striker to be united number 9 in a team like this.
9.) 01 Oct 2023 15:20:46
Good post fox. Let's not get all drama queen and start calling this a crisis.
Anybody who thinks that a poor start to a football season is a crisis needs to have a long hard look at themselves.
It's a very poor start no doubt and things to need to improve. Most older fans will be well aware how long it took ferguson to change the club's culture.
Lots of players still need to be moved on that is harder now tj in the 80s.
Let theft be no panic.
I expect more from the team players and managed and I'm confident things will get better over time.
10.) 01 Oct 2023 16:38:13
Rashford has been in poor form, I'd like to see garnacho get a few starts to see if he can play well consistently.
Klopp made the error for a while playing midfielders in defence as it weekend his midfield a couple of seasons ago. I'd rather see amrabat in midfield as that's his best position.
Pellistri is an awfully weak option.
Hannibal is worth giving minutes to based on the energy and qualities he brings.
I've said it once and happy to double down any player that played under ole in my opinion needs to be moved on with the exception of varane.
Fergie had to do it the squad he inherited had plenty of good players but they had poor mentality and culture. Klopp did the same at Liverpool over 4 or 5 windows.
The playing staff was rotten to the core and it will take time to rid the club of them all.
Bruno maybe another exception but if it was my choice I'd have him down the road too.
It will take time.
Older fans who saw the transition from Atkinson to Ferguson should understand. Most will.
It's a tough job eth has. In order to move forward maguire lindelof dalot Shaw rashford sancho vdb mctom awb all have to go in order to change the culture or at least most of them.
There is still rotten apples there.
11.) 01 Oct 2023 16:46:03
As your post is correct fox, it's not the start or lack of points that's a worry. its the actual football. I'm nearly 50, been going side 83 and seen some awful stuff. But during the 80s when it was poor, the team actually really tried. they just weren't good. There's losing and there's losing while not putting a shift in, which we can all see is happening again and we all know who. Don't want ten hag removed but I can see we peoples patience is wearing very very thin. Lose next week and god knows what happens then.
12.) 01 Oct 2023 17:59:03
Did eth reject Ragnik? Ragnik decision mid feb, ten hag was in March. Ralf had just publically criticized the club from top to bottom and there are people in power still there today who benefitted from him leaving. Do people really think that ten hag would not have wanted a football man like Ralf above him to bounce things off? He may have insisted on a 50 50 veto like he has now. But I don't see why that wouldn't have worked. I have no inside knowledge but u suspect it was Arnold and or Murtaugh who got rid of Ralf because they realised he was talking about them.
Half of EtH signings have been loans. Which other big club is doing this? People say Anthony value was stupid, but earlier in the window he was available for a lot less. We waited until Ajax didn't need to sell, and we were desperate.
Ten hag is changing culture, he is breaking eggs and we have to let him keep going. We cannot allow these owners to survive another manager. Give ten hag time, and focus frustration and pressure at the owners and management above ten hag. They all need to go first.
13.) 01 Oct 2023 19:51:57
By all accounts ETH said he did not want RR above him was part of him agreeing contract by all accounts.
14.) 01 Oct 2023 20:04:35
Dodgy,
Nobody knows, but it doesn’t stop people pretending they do to suit their agenda.
15.) 01 Oct 2023 20:20:17
Why don’t you two get a room?
16.) 01 Oct 2023 21:57:14
Wow, where did that come from Patick?!
Mine was an honest question. I have not heard of a credible source saying EtH rejected him. I have heard people in here say "by all accounts", whatever that means. I think possibly you can just make up what you like and say everyone knows. Dressing room leaks is another one. State your sources or it didn't happen ?.
17.) 02 Oct 2023 00:07:46
People soon forget what the deal was with Rangnick. He was a temporary manager with an option to stay as a consultant after this contract as a manager expired at the end of the season.
He was never promised a key role, had any duties set out or wielded any power.
His role was literally to just be a sounding board to bounce ideas off and a facilitator if/ when he had contacts so transfers and the like could be moved along a little more smoothly.
It's unclear whether it was EtH who said he didn't see a use for Rangnick or whether it was someone else at the club.
The rumours were there before EtH took over that people within the club weren't particularly taken with Rangnick. He upset a few people with his honesty and straight talking during interviews. He was supposedly pulled up a few times for things he said to the press. All of this precedes EtH. The club didn't listen to him on many occasions when it came to potential transfer targets, now players like Caicedo and Alvarez are playing well for rivals Chelsea and City. We could have had both players for around 1/ 3 of what Mount cost.
So let's not try and rewrite history to suggest Rangnick would have been the saviour but was booted out by EtH.
Maybe Rangnick might have had a positive impact if he stayed with the club in some capacity, or maybe it would have been too many cooks and would have just complicated things.
For me the fundamental issue with it at the time was that he should have been going to have the job John Murtagh holds. Rangnick as anything other than a DoF didn't make sense.
The club's view was to have Murtagh as DoF, Arnold as CEO, Fletcher in some capacity that no one is sure what his role actually is, Rangnick as a consultant, Matt Judge negotiating transfers and then the manager all working together. Oh and with any key things being signed off by Joel Glazer.
You can see how that is a an absolute mess. Up to 7 people all with an opinion all trying to decided what is best for the club and follow that through.
That structure in is horrendous, and while I'd rather have Rangnick in one of those roles instead. The reality of the possible position he would have held was never going to have any real power.
18.) 02 Oct 2023 02:53:54
Give ETH a decent number 2 if his in game decision making is in question.
He takes the training, picks the team, motivates the lads etc etc. But if as highlighted he has shortfalls in his repertoire, then address and improve, move on.
Find the next crack and fix it with a solution not a band-aid.
Stop the rot by tossing out the bad apples.
Obviously this doesn't apply to MG, that is one apple who will turn out rosy for us again ??.
19.) 02 Oct 2023 07:25:29
Morning folks. Missed the weekend and the game and was on a liquid diet weekend in Rome watching the greatest sporting spectacle there is.
Read Rash had a howler and difficult decision for the manager to either sit bench him or keep playing him through this spell and get him firing again. It is howler of a result that might cost us looking back at the end of the season.
For anyone who thinks Rangnik was eth decision I have to say you are so far off base to think that and have no idea how the club is ran. His appointment and his departure had nothing to do with eth and he does not run the club or appointments or dismissal of Rangnik nature.
He runs the footballing side of managing the team period. He does not negotiate players in or out and what we pay for the or what we receive for them.
I saw highlights of the game and they stole a point. we have had no composure in the final third for a long time and that includes our forwards, wingers and mids and the primary reason why we struggle to score. Teaching football iq is difficult sometimes as most of them only know one way to play.
Very tough league this year looking at the results and we better sort out our final third play soon or it will be a very long season of disappointments.
20.) 02 Oct 2023 08:31:27
Dodgy I was referring to the love rift between Maze and GDS2!
21.) 02 Oct 2023 10:50:18
There has been no discussion between myself and Maze on this post Patrick.
22.) 02 Oct 2023 10:50:18
There has been no discussion between myself and Maze on this post Patrick.
21 Aug 2023 08:19:30
Not been on for a while but It seems the usual negative views are surfacing once again.
I think a reminder of several issues need to be pointed to these people of the financial situation and ownership question for the future .
Presently MU do not have the funds to purchase £100m players .
We have players that other teams do not want because they are on large earning contracts that players do not want to leave, without being paid remainder of contract in a lump some.
FFP rules restrict to what we are able to achieve in the transfer market until players move on.
No stadium or major training modifications plans are able to start until ownership is resolved .
The Greenwood situation is a dark cloud hovering over the club and what ever decision is made it will be wrong .
Not a good situation and much more difficult to try and close the gap to Man City so until all above are resolved we will have issues in landing top quality players.
1.) 21 Aug 2023 09:05:39
None of the above issues have anything to do with the non existent tactics that we have seen in the 2 games so far. The lateness of subs, continuing to play same underperforming players etc.
Tell me when was the last United beat a top 8/ 9 team away from home.
2.) 21 Aug 2023 10:18:24
The issue is the same as last season no one up top who can hold up the play and bring in others. When we try to push forward to support the attack the opposition have taken the ball far too easily and we are caught out of position.
Personally I thought we needed the minimum of 2 strikers to be signed but at the moment we have a choice of none.
3.) 21 Aug 2023 10:53:19
It’s about round shapes in round holes. We have one real striker who was bought injured, no CM general to play with or deputise for Cas, bought Mount for a role we have Bruno for and no CD purchase. Yet have spent £170m. We can’t score goals like last season yet do the same thing this, expecting a different result.
4.) 21 Aug 2023 11:26:11
The resurfacing of the same negative views seems to have coincided with the start of the new season.
5.) 21 Aug 2023 12:06:33
We are a fickle bunch. A couple of bad games and the world is ending and we are rubbish, sell the team, Sack the manager etc etc. There are fans who will vent no matter what.
Oh no we are finishing 6th.
Watched the Chelsea game yesterday the better team by a country mile lost but today every talking head is having a go at Chelsea. They will be so good, give them 8 weeks to settle down and get players back.
6.) 21 Aug 2023 12:40:59
Ahmad - Football fans are a fickle bunch, but the issues are still there. This is the last time I'll say it, but we could have filled a gaping hole with just one signing this summer and he was available, had we had the cash to spend. It's not just the goals Kane scores, it's the way he plays. Now we will pile the pressure onto a kid who. We were missing a spine this summer and we are still missing a spine two games in. We will win games and things will seem rosy again, but until we get the issues sorted, we will always be looking up.
7.) 21 Aug 2023 13:38:06
there is one basic issue that has not been resolved and continues to have the biggest impact. its not greenwood/ an old stadium/ poor facilities / wages/ £100 million pound players/ bad managers. it is the lack of fighting spirit that is all too evident when the team plays especially away or when they go behind.
Each and every player should take a look at their own performance and understand that they should at the very least try their hardest every game. Lose possession? Track and tackle back hard. Mark your opponents properly. Do not make crass back passes without checking how dangerous that might be. Simple passes should always go to your team mate not the opposition because you are careless. Make runs so that your team mates always have an option to pass to. so many more basic points I could make that currently are not being done but the biggest thing is to have heart. real heart.
8.) 21 Aug 2023 13:39:40
Sydney
We agree. No one has said sack the manager that I have seen, nor should we. But he has to start making obvious decisions. We also can’t keep spending massive amounts on players that don’t fit and still not filling holes like CF and CM.
9.) 21 Aug 2023 14:57:37
Ahmad H, its not an overreaction to 2 games, is it? You answer the question i asked and i repeat - When was the last time United beat a top 8/ 9 side away from home?
Its the very same issues that we saw last season that are resurfacing and ETH isn't doing anything to correct them. He has had one full season and a full pre-season under his belt now. He has run out of excuses. Maguire can't be an issue, he hasn't played either game. Its very tiresome to watch the great United play these days. Too much hype has been created about playing out from the back and we just keep passing back and forth between the keeper and the CBs. There is no movement up front. Rashford is Rashford and yet he gets shoehorned at CF when everyone knows Rashford is a LW. Sancho was tried as a false 9 in pre-season, why hasn't he been tried in games? Sancho has done more in 20 odd minutes in 2 games than Rashford has done in 180 but he will keep getting picked as CF. We are still 11 individuals playing with the ball rather than a team.
10.) 21 Aug 2023 15:26:48
Red Man - I do wonder if the Greenwood thing has held us back. Ten days left in the window and we need at least one midfielder, one forward and a goalkeeper.
We have tried to sell Maguire, Lindelof, AWB, McTominay with no luck, all refusing to leave, now we will look to Greenwood to raise some cash. Very strange.
At the moment it's a shambles. Massive ten days.
11.) 21 Aug 2023 15:57:13
UA
Its the most boring stat that currently being thrown st us and old news. We lost 8/ 9 games on away games ladt year to top 9 clubs.
We have lost our itst away game this year against a useless spurs team imo who will finish 7th/ 8th at best. Its talking point for the online mob. If we win 3 of the next 4 away to top 8 then it will be top 4 newws headlines how we have not won there.
Its what sells untill it does not. Change has its challenges, we all want it faster but sometimes takes longer.
12.) 21 Aug 2023 16:55:10
Boring or not, its a very damning stat and it is true because we have been poor.
13.) 21 Aug 2023 17:29:24
Sydney
It should not have taken this long to reach the Greenwood decision. Martial is useless and may go to Saudi, Rashford isn’t a CF and the manager has buried his head in the sand thinking we don’t need to score goals. We need two forwards now.
29 Jan 2023 08:27:43
Hi
Agree on comments on commentator/ pundits.
Why do they discuss what player or team did previous years instead of commentating on the actual game. I simply turn sound off!
1.) 29 Jan 2023 09:41:04
Radio commentary far better than the TV. Slight lag that’s all when watching the two together.
2.) 29 Jan 2023 12:06:05
Commentators aren't hired for their expertise, the media companies have dozens of analysts coming up with the content for them to discuss.
They are hired as a famous face who will say controversial things to invoke engagement with the media.
They all do it, sly spurts, talkrubbish, even YouTubers like Goldbridge.
Say negative controversial things than the comments sections fill up and engagement peaks.
No one kicks of or discusses bland accurate points.
It's why I give no notice to what they say.
11 Mar 2024 08:33:35
Agree with many of the comments above that basically provides a true picture of the status of the team and structure over the past decade at MU.
Unfortunately one major issue that has limited squad revamp after so many changes in managers and coaching staff is salaries compared to other teams.
MU even have to subsidize salaries if the player goes out on loan!
Unlike Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool it’s much more difficult to move failed players on because of the stupid high salaries and long contracts MU have handed out to players.
How many of us would move to another company for half the salary if you have a long term contract especially if you are at the end of your career?
Obviously this problem has been caused by the structure behind the manager and some poor selection of players transferred in.
Let’s have patience and hope the new structure over the next few seasons will sort this issue even if means buying some contracts to clear the decks.
20 Jan 2024 11:37:21
How many times has Martial been injured during transfer window so no surprise he is injured again!
03 Dec 2023 09:18:33
I totally agree and beginning to question recent transfer selections coupled with tactics and coaching going forward . All we hear is we are in a process but Aston Villa, Spurs and Brighton have had less time with new managers and spent less money!
16 Aug 2022 20:06:57
Agree and when you look at last years results against bottom half of league we struggled . Expect without any additions in next two weeks we will be scrapping for points to finish in top half.
Present team is set up with individual skills not as a team or physicality needed to battle .
09 Jun 2022 07:05:41
Hi all
Let’s be honest what’s happening is no surprise we are unable to offer champions league so players will wait and see if champion league teams come in for them.
I hope that the new set up does not, like previous years, once number one or two target fails they bring in players over the hill to fill the squad and spend most time in the medical department!
Long time to go yet have patience until internationals have been completed players have a tan from hols then see the real reality and not media rumours!