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11 Aug 2022 08:38:44
Wouldn't it be funny if you finally got FDJ and he turned out to be rubbish in the EPL?
1.) 11 Aug 2022 08:44:51
Would not surprise me either Otts, he not been that great at Barca, he been OK, would 1 supporter from Barcelona shed a tear if he was gone. Nope that’s the reality he is not the heartbeat of Barca, never as been never will be, but we are pinning our hopes or ETH is that he will be our heartbeat…I’m not convinced.
2.) 11 Aug 2022 09:37:05
Rubbish no way but possibility like many before him in finding the pl a different animal. Every team has had their share of them.
3.) 11 Aug 2022 14:18:27
Totally agree Newyorker, I think he's failed at Barca. He's hyped up too much. I'm not sure he'll suit the PL, but if ETH wants him to do a certain job, then we have to trust the manager.
I actually think we need him and another CM.
08 Aug 2022 08:01:54
Genuinely not here to gloat especially as we could only draw with Fulham!
What do you guys think ETH will change for the Brentford game?
1.) 08 Aug 2022 08:13:36
The club he is at ?
On a more serious note, I hope he will drop at least McT, Maguire and Shaw, but I don't expect that.
2.) 08 Aug 2022 08:24:28
Erickson in midfield deeper. Ronaldo will start and probably malacia. We will win that game.
3.) 08 Aug 2022 08:25:10
He could change the whole team bar Martinez and Erickson
Unfortunately we don’t have a big enough squad to do that.
This will be a theme for the season unless players are brought in.
4.) 08 Aug 2022 08:31:34
Really martinez had a howler, recommend you watch the game again. If welbeck could do that to him a lot pl strikers will have field day with him. Hopefully a bad day and learning process. I would play venderbeek and drop mc.
5.) 08 Aug 2022 08:58:32
Had a howler was you watching the same game?
I suggest you look back through the game other than the mid timed slide at the start of the game, even his booking was harsh that was the first time he commited a foul
Suppose blinkers and all that but if he wasn’t covering that tractor that is Maguire and shaw we would have conceded more.
If you think Martinez had a howler you wasn’t watching the same game.
{Ed014's Note - he wasn’t great mate and that’s without mentioning his good fortune re an obvs penalty.
He made more errors than that too. I wouldn’t say he had a howler though just a little better than the other halfwits in your defence.
6.) 08 Aug 2022 08:59:01
He didn't really. He had issues with Maguire constantly moving across and not trusting his teammates/ not having enough awareness. Varane alongside him would show that.
7.) 08 Aug 2022 09:04:39
Martinez was playing his first game in a new league in front of a goalkeeper who isn't great with his feet, alongside 2 full backs who aren't good enough on or off the ball and beside the CB who has the worst positioning and slowest recovery at the club. Add to that Fred who tries but isn't technically able to play quick possession football and McTominay who hides from the ball quite often and when he does get it has poor control leading to overrunning it and dreadful passing ability. Plus we had Bruno being as wasteful as he was 2nd half of last season for large parts of the game.
The myth that Fred and McTominay provide protection is hopefully shattered now and people can see that they aren't capable.
8.) 08 Aug 2022 09:26:09
Martinez wasn't great, but I could see why ETH wants him as he played some lovely passes into midfield, but Ant and Dec could do nothing with them. He wasn't helped by the fact Shaw was rarely in the same postcode as him, nor Maguire who was getting exposed for his lack of pace all over.
9.) 08 Aug 2022 09:44:49
I try not to get on Maguire's back too much as I don't think he's quite worthy of the absolute vitriol he gets. But yesterday just watching the Utd pattern of passing back to him and watching what he did with the ball. it was so sluggish and predictable. If you're going to do that then at least make sure it's Martinez doing the distributing role, as his long-range punting if that's the route we're going to go down is excellent.
10.) 08 Aug 2022 10:12:40
Cmon guys the game changed after their first goal and martinez went to sleep and welbeck made a simple run to be wide open and simple cross for a tap in. This team seems to lose all their shape and whatever plan we had goes to sh…. t when we concede or fall behind. It becomes a bit of helter skelter and panic.
I also though vanderbeeks short time was pretty good and we looked like we had control of the midfield with him and erickson.
11.) 08 Aug 2022 10:26:10
It wasn't an obvious penalty Ed. If you watch its a shoulder barge which we see all the time around the pitch most weekends, no foul given. I believe you even used the term "outmuscled" yourself Ed. He didn't have his arms up in the back like a shove. You've spoken about it on the Liverpool page and again on here. It wasn't a clear and obvious penalty, otherwise it would have been given. Talking about var, Welbeck still looked offside to me no matter how many times I see it and how they can accurately judge the timing of the release of the pass. It still has human decision making based on a little guess work.
{Ed014's Note - I’ve not used the term out muscled mate and as Welbeck had his back to him not sure where you saw the shoulder barge but hey you got lucky or should I say he did.
They did show that Maguire had kept him onside and agree these tiny margins are annoying but it’s not much different to winning a gold medal by a thousandth of a second. There’s always a loser.
12.) 08 Aug 2022 11:59:42
With Martinez's shoulder Ed, you see those challenges a lot when defenders are trying to see the ball out, rarely is anything given. I bet if Martinez was trying to usher the ball out, Welbeck takes the ball in exactly the same way and bangs it in the net you would be saying its a foul?
11 Jul 2022 09:13:32
Serious question guys.
Is there anything happening in the transfer market that makes you think you can make top 4.
You need to finish above either Chelsea or Spurs (and as Spurs seem to me to be recruiting really well so that I think they may have a realistic title chance) that means you need to finish above Chelsea!
1.) 11 Jul 2022 09:42:50
Most important signing has been the manager.
Spurs recruitment has been overrated for me. Bissouma is a good player, but lenglet isn’t great, Richarlison is overrated. Persic isn’t getting younger but will add a bit of depth. Can’t see them on a title charge.
2.) 11 Jul 2022 09:48:09
Even with the signings Tottenham have a far inferior squad to both Liverpool and City so cannot see them being consistent enough to challenge for the league.
Whether we can get above either of them will not be an easy task but the upside to having so many players on bad form is that form isn't permanent.
Now that we have a hands on manager giving them detailed tactics and instructions (neither Ole or Rangnick were present in training sessions) I am hoping the players will look less lost on the field and we will see resurgent form from at least a few of them.
3.) 11 Jul 2022 10:08:50
Even with no further signings after Eriksen is confirmed we will be better than last season. Spurs should be favourites to get into the top 4 along with the other 3 sides but I'd still say we will finish ahead of Arsenal as it stands.
I'd still suggest there are more than likely to be another 3 or 4 players coming in though.
4.) 11 Jul 2022 10:13:26
Agree with Caolan but also, Pogba and Lingard leaving I think we’ll see a big change in attitude. Yes, only 2 players but 2 big characters who I think were very influential/ dominant in the changing room and within the squad. This squad finished 2nd under Jose and Ole and arguably, with, imo a weaker squad then our now current squad with potentially more players to come in. City, unfortunately are the bench mark ? We know what can be done with a good coach from what Liverpool have done. Then it’s, IMO a coin toss between United, Tottenham, Chelsea and Arsenal. I think Tottenham currently the strongest of the 4, Arsenal the weakest and then not sure there is much between us and Chelsea based off our new manager and current/ potential transfers in and out.
I want at least 3rd, a cup and hopefully the UEFA Cup or at least a good run. Think all this is realistic too.
5.) 11 Jul 2022 10:18:31
Otts, I think Conte is a fantastic manager and he’s managed to get spurs to buy very very well, very quickly. He won the league with Victor Moses, Cahill, Pedro. He obviously knows how to get the best out of the players he wants to fit his system. I think Spurs are going to be difficult for us to catch unless Ten Hag gets 5-6 more players.
Chelsea is an interesting one, it will be interesting to see how the new owner operates in the transfer market. Going for Ronaldo, the polar opposite from a touchel player will tell us a lot of it’s true/ happens.
I believe we have a quality manager in EtH, I do worry about our transfer activity though, we haven’t really got the RB, LCB, DCM, CM, RW or FW to play the type of football EtH has played with the two incarnations of his Ajax team. Sometimes though it can be a blessing in disguise as it means youth players have to step up.
6.) 11 Jul 2022 11:14:03
There is a typical thing that happens amoungst United fans.
We always seem to think every signing a rival makes will make them much stronger and will be a top class signing for them, while simultaneously assuming every signing United make will flop or not meet expectations.
The thing is a great team can sign a great player and even if they do really well will only marginally make them better.
Yet a average team signing a great player can make a massive difference. We have even seen that recently with Bruno. He came in and made a massive difference. If we sign 5 players this summer and 2 of them have a similar impact to Bruno then we'll be massively improved on last season.
That's without factoring in that we have a top class new coach, who in theory should get the existing players to play better than last season.
If he can improve the existing players by 10-15 points, while the new players can improve the team by 10-15 points then we will have a squad that in theory could be 20-30 points better off next season which would give us between 78-88 points.
Last season Chelsea and Spurs finished with 74 and 71 points respectively.
Even just 20 points better off would have got us 3rd last season. So no reason to think we won't be right in the mix for the places between 5th and 3rd.
That's without considering that Spurs could implode with Conte at any moment. Or that Tuchel hasn't really improved Chelsea since his original bounce.
7.) 11 Jul 2022 11:43:36
'Just' the extra 20 points?
8.) 11 Jul 2022 12:10:58
I think so. Chelsea had a terrible second half to the season and have not yet addressed their defensive issues. The Tuchel effect has worn off, as it did in his other jobs, so let’s see.
Spurs have been surprisingly efficient in the window, but barring Bissouma none of their other signings I’d want to see at Old Trafford.
Arsenal - you just don’t know what you’re going to get with them.
As for us - it’s exciting to see what ETH can do with this group and a couple of editions.
9.) 11 Jul 2022 12:15:41
Some of the people on here are beyond deluded.
We have lost players that were regular starters last season, and brought in a grand total of one backup left back.
Yet, people think we’re getting a 20 point bounce on the back of a new manager.
Our squad is poor. This is a direct result of persistent transfer mistakes, particularly under Ole. The likes of Maguire, Lindelof, Fred, McTominay, AWB, Dalot, Martial, and, on current form, Rashford are not good enough for a top 4 side. But they will be playing an integral role in our squad, unless the club brings in new players.
ETH is a very promising young manager. But it’s hanging him out to dry to expect him to work miracles with this shower of wasters. If the club doesn’t back him in the transfer market, he won’t turn things around. Simple as. Without allowing a new manager to recruit players to fit his system, they’re on a hiding to nothing.
10.) 11 Jul 2022 12:16:43
Shappy, in theory? Your theories are always bonkers mate ?.
11.) 11 Jul 2022 12:34:49
Who have we lost that were regular starters? Pogba? Lingard? Mata? Matic? I may have to look up the definition of regular.
12.) 11 Jul 2022 12:46:26
Shappy, you talk about 15-20 extrapoints as if they're easy to get. Bonkers.
As Danny says, we will gain nothing even with a good coach like ETH unless the club back the manager with transfers. And this not happening at present.
I actually think we'll get the Fdj transfer done, but we need a lot more than that. A striker, a right back, a defensive midfielder and a centre back.
We are more or less halfway through the transfer window and the season is only few weeks away, and we've only signed a left back.
The rest have strengthened massively and even Chelsea will have Sterling on board. So, how are we suddenly going to gain another 15-20 points? It's fanciful to think ETH will just wave a magic wand and everything will be fine.
It's not going to be fine unless the club back the manager.
13.) 11 Jul 2022 12:51:20
Pogba generally played when fit. Matic was a regular starter when fit. Cavani was our back up striker.
That’s 3 players who have not been replaced.
Even if Ronaldo stays, Martial or Rashford are our only back up strikers.
Pogba has not been replaced.
Matic has not been replaced.
14.) 11 Jul 2022 12:57:57
Don't forget spurs have signed Spence who will be the best rb in the league next year.
Oh wait they still have not got the deal done have they aaa. Should they pull out what are their amatures doing?
Aaa you won't be happy if eth does well as you will still be disgruntled your more interested in ownership and boardroom strategy than you are the actual football so you won't be happy ever.
15.) 11 Jul 2022 13:26:03
Ken, you're slowly becoming an apologist for this incompetent boardroom lol.
16.) 11 Jul 2022 13:45:56
No I'm not at all angel. I would like the glazers to leave as quick as the next man.
Imo this is a new begining on the pitch it's where all our focus should be.
The owners will take the dividends they are entitled to as owners.
They are entitled to more tbf. They have spent over 1 billion of their money on new players.
Yes it's been spend badly but they didn't have to didn't that much they could have taken it out of the club.
The club lost money last year and they get pelters for taking a few million out but in the same breath we want them to spend yet another 150m on players. Where is that money coming from?
If fans think its irresponsible to take dividends out on a bad financial year do they think its financially sold to spend another 200m on players?
I don't make apologies for them I just point out they are doing nothing illegal immoral or wrong. Just because you don't like a situation doesn't mean that by stamping your feet and making a whole lot of noise that it helps. The club is in good shape financially despite forking out over a billion on players recently.
I would like everyone to concentrate on the football show support.
You and I both know that if the team is doing well and winning and improving less ignorant comments about dividends and the likes will happen.
I honestly don't know why some people support the club they have not got 1 good thing to say about the club.
Sure some transient employees deserve criticism in fact plenty do but the club needs support now imo in order to give eth the best chance. Just my opinion.
17.) 11 Jul 2022 13:52:45
Angel,
If your partner is ugly but you love them you don't go around telling everybody they are ugly.
If others want to call your partner an ugly dog that's their prerogative but I don't think you should be joining in.
18.) 11 Jul 2022 13:55:03
AAA, we drew 10 games and lost 13 last season.
Turn half those draws into wins and that's an extra 10 points.
Last season we drew to:
Chelsea X2, Southampton X2, Leicester, Watford, Burnley, Villa, Newcastle and Everton.
Just get the players we have playing to their potential and there are easily 5 games we could win there.
While we lost to:
Liverpool X2, City X2, Arsenal, Villa, Leicester, Wolves, Watford, Palace, Everton and Brighton.
Looking at that lot there are at least 5 games we should have won give the quality we have (Watford, Palace, Brighton, Wolves and Everton) . Which is we turn those 5 losses into wins is an extra 15 points.
Some would argue that we probably should be beating Villa and Leicester as well.
What you're suggesting is that even with the players we have, we shouldn't be expecting to get wins against the likes of Watford, Burnley, Palace, Southampton, Brighton Wolves, Villa and Everton.
Two of which got relegated, and another 3 finished in 14th place or lower.
With no new signings and just getting the current players to play to their potential should get us an extra 20 points. I've just named 10 results that should have been wins last season that would have got us an extra 25 points.
19.) 11 Jul 2022 14:26:32
Hey Shappy, whilst I understand the theory. Without replacements/ additions drawing and losing that many games is our reality. There are some really really good technical breakdown videos on YouTube about our tactical set up etc under RR vs Ole. The most telling part is we were way more structured under RR, the players however were just not capable of doing the tasks required. Pressing from the front as an example, the players were just bad at it, formation wise they were in the right position they just sucked at it. Playing out from the back, Mctominay would sit in a blind pocket effectively taking himself out as a passing option thus making us predictable and susceptible to the press. Maguire getting pulled out of position with traps, out of possession Bruno running around like a headless chicken with no output.
My worry is, whilst EtH has shown himself to be flexible as a manager and willing to play to a teams strengths, he does however in recent years have a preferred way of playing. The squad as I can see, doesn’t posses they attributes to play that way. The fullbacks can’t invert centrally as they are not technically good enough on the ball, they also struggle driving forward. We haven’t got a DM to mop up and protect the CB’s, we haven’t got a CM that can drop back and drive forward breaking the midfield line pushing the team forward, no right wing making us offensively predictable.
Correcting the imbalances needed to play anything like the 2 versions of EtH Ajax systems is going to be difficult.
20.) 11 Jul 2022 14:40:55
*that should be lost 12, typo.
21.) 11 Jul 2022 14:57:12
Me (an idiot) - I can’t see a club that hasn’t improved their squad, while their opponents have, getting a 20 point bounce just by hiring a new manager.
Shappy (an intellectual) - well, if the team had actually won more games last season, they would have easily had more points.
22.) 11 Jul 2022 14:59:38
I tend to agree with Shappy that a proper manager, having been relieved of a number of distractions and poseurs, should be able to get more out of this squad. There was a period in RRs reign when we actually played quite well but couldn't score, losing games we should have won. We also conceded pathetic energy sapping goals at critical times. After that the confidence dried up and the team capitulated. If EtH can get the best out of what we have I see no reason why we should not be able to at least compete for top 4 and, even if they don't make it, maybe winning the Europa.
For starters, Rashford, Sancho, Bruno, Shaw, Maguire and Varane have all shown themselves capable of playing better than they did last season.
23.) 11 Jul 2022 15:52:45
Rewz, I have two counter points. Firstly, not all coaches are created equal. It is entirely possible that EtH is a better coach and is better at developing players and educating them to do the right things at the right times.
Secondly, if you as an observer had to make a guess what percentage of effort do you think the players were putting in last season? Personally at times they didn't even seem to be putting in 50% effort let alone anything close to 100%.
Which begs the question, if the manager was better able to educate and motivate the players last season would we have won more games?
McTominay standing in the blind spot when the CB's have the ball is something that he can be taught. It's a fairly simple fix. It's not like asking a legless man to run faster. Same thing with pressing, some players tried, some didn't and most didn't know when they should do it or how. That doesn't mean its beyond them, just that they weren't taught in a way that got the message across.
If players like Bruno, Rashford, Sancho, Maguire, Shaw, McTominay etc gave 100% and hit their best form last season we would have been 20 points better off at least.
This group of players do not have the ability to challenge for a title as it stands, but we aren't asking or expecting that. They are more than good enough to finish in the top four if they give 100% effort and are coached/ educated to play in a manner that gets the best out of them.
{Ed014's Note - you really are in a dream world! ?♂️
24.) 11 Jul 2022 16:07:56
Well done Danny, nice sarcasm. I won't point out the form of wit that is.
We see a new manager bounce all the time, sometimes during a season it can be enough to save a club from relegation, other times it can carry them to a UCL title.
We've just made the managerial equivalent of moving from a Robin Reliant to a Ferrari Testarossa, in moving from Ole to EtH.
We've gone from a manager most Championship sides wouldn't consider to a manager most top European sides would consider.
You'd expect to see quite a difference in performance wouldn't you?
Can you hand on heart tell me that 95% of our squad last season played the best they could? Or did you see many players play well below their best?
Are you honestly telling me that this current group of Manchester United players aren't and shouldn't be beating the likes of Watford, Burnley, Southampton, Everton and Villa? All teams that finished in the bottom 7 last season.
Are they not good enough to win against Palace, Brighton, Wolves or Newcastle?
Are you seriously telling me that those 8 teams have a better first 11 and squad than us?
Only 4 of the 15 sides we dropped points against last season finished above us. So that's at least 11 sides we were better than last season who we dropped points against.
We don't need EtH to make this side better than City or Liverpool next season to finish in the top four. Just beat most of the sides that they are better than and we are well in with a shout.
However, that is an uncomfortable truth for most fans to take, fans who just want to see shiny new signings for mega money.
25.) 11 Jul 2022 16:18:48
Haha ken, fair analogy. But I don't love united like I love my girlfriend so I can be honest and call a spade a spade. they're as ugly as you can get.
26.) 11 Jul 2022 16:48:13
Not a nice thing to say about your Mrs and her sister angel??.
27.) 11 Jul 2022 16:20:12
Come on ed014, it's a really simple fix, any idiot could do it.
Except Jose, Ole and Rangnick.
{Ed014's Note - ???
28.) 11 Jul 2022 16:58:26
I’d argue that rehashed cliched quotes are the lowest form of wit, but hey.
Having watched the majority of this squad fail 3 consecutive managers, I have zero confidence in their ability to perform at a consistently high level.
A manager can only succeed if he has players capable of implementing this strategy. Given what RR said about these players, and Jose too, I very much doubt they can implement what ETH wants. That’s why he wants to bring in at least 3 more first choice players.
Every team has games they think they should have won. Good squads tend to win more often than not.
29.) 11 Jul 2022 17:08:19
Angel that's not fair only 2 of those were idiots.
Jose is no idiot.
30.) 11 Jul 2022 17:39:36
1 manager to freak show attractions Danny not 3 managers.
31.) 11 Jul 2022 18:53:12
The Glazers have not put one solitary cent of their own money into the club, let alone £1Bn, let’s have that right. If you can find one investment into the club in any accounts since they arrived please post it.
The same people magicking up 15 to 20 points are probably the same ones who told me the 11 points SAF won the league by in 2013 were too much for Moyes to give up in his first season.
32.) 11 Jul 2022 19:17:46
What Rangnick and Jose have forgotten about football, we would never be able to learn. RR is far from an idiot.
Fair kop about the sister ken ??.
33.) 11 Jul 2022 19:26:58
Well said Red Man. Up the 1958.
34.) 11 Jul 2022 19:45:31
I mean the proof will be in the pudding. Either we'll end up 20 points better off next season or we won't. At least one of us will have egg on their face.
35.) 11 Jul 2022 20:06:04
Redman every penny the cub generates belongs to the shareholders.
They have a choice on what to do with that money that their business has generated. So they decided albeit in vein despite being the biggest spenders in world football to spend the money on players.
They don't need to make payments into their own profitable business that would be daft and you know it.
How much of their own cash do any 100m plus business put into it when it's profitable. You know that so it's a silly point to make.
You don't like the way they bought the club and the way they milk it but they are not doing anything wrong from a business perspective from a shareholders point of view.
So you wish it was different I think we all do.
We wish they would have put 500m into infrastructure.
If they first 300m on players had been spent better and recruitment on the coaching and playing side had been better then maybe just maybe there would have been money to spend on the infrastructure too instead of spending more money on players than any other club in the world.
I hope they sell I think we all do but until then we have to hope this coach can turn things around on the pitch again.
All the negativity towards the owners will dissipate to a large degree when the team is more successful once again.
But the fans like yourself and many others on here that keep banging on with all the negativity about every single aspect of the club are not helping the coach the players or anybody else.
I've said many times this is potentially a new begining ON THE PITCH. I think that's all the fans should concentrate on. It's all as fans we can really influence.
We have ridded the club of the worst manager in my living memory. A manager who brought expectations to new lows and killed all hope on the pitch.
If the new guy has any chance he needs people including players and fans to start looking forwards not backwards.
Imo he has nothing to prove to us we have plenty to prove to him as fans.
Again that's just my opinion.
36.) 11 Jul 2022 20:12:39
Angel has RRBeen a good manager for any club ever at the top level?
I never said he didn't know plenty about football but he is a very unsuccessful coach and football manager.
His record here was shockingly bad. Blame the players all you like and don't get me wrong they were pathetic and horrible but its a managers job to get the team playing for him.
His tenure exposed plenty of the players but his approach also exposed him and its clear why he has never been able to win with a squad over a sustained period anywhere.
He is a strategist not a coach. Intl football might suit him better a bit like Southgate. As a player you can put up with him for a couple of weeks but not daily for years I'd imagine.
37.) 11 Jul 2022 21:52:18
I think RR was on a hiding to nothing. I don't think you can judge him on his tenure here. Last season was terrible.
RR is well thought of by various coaches and footballing people on Europe, who am I to disagree?
Very unsuccessful? I think he's had minor successes with smaller clubs but is credited for helping and nurturing some now very successful coaches and also building clubs.
As I said, he is far from an idiot. Going back to shappy's original point about McT, if it was that simple, it would've been done.
38.) 11 Jul 2022 23:21:04
He is not a good football manager. Never had been. He has talents but he never had a job at a top club as a manager because he never did very well at managing football teams as head coach.
So he is good at mentoring coaches but not at coaching and managing players at the top level.
05 Jul 2022 09:52:35
Erikson was a stand out bit of class in a very hard working Brentford team. He had others to do his donkey work whilst he worked his magic.
Great for a mid table side but imo not at all what you guys need, not sure how you get him and BF in the same team and keep it balanced.
1.) 05 Jul 2022 10:08:39
When there were reports he wasn’t coming everyone was saying he’s an exceptional player. What’s changing?
Ten hag will have a plan.
2.) 05 Jul 2022 10:18:18
There are ways, great players work out how to play together.
Plus he is a player EtH wants, so you'd imagine such fastidious man such as EtH would have a very clear idea about how he intends to use him.
Finally, you can't play the same 11 players every week, you need to rotate to keep players fresh, to keep squad players match sharp, or to adjust tactically for each opponent.
I think your also doing Eriksen a disservice, he has never been a lazy player who waltz's around. He made a success of himself at Spurs under Pochettino with his high energy, physically demanding style. Eriksen is certainly a player prepared to put in the hard yards.
3.) 05 Jul 2022 11:20:45
We are a mid table team.
4.) 05 Jul 2022 13:05:00
When did we last finish mid table? Thirty odd years ago.
5.) 05 Jul 2022 18:38:41
Many don't know what mid table actually us ??.
{Ed014's Note - anywhere between 7th and 14th I’d think would be fair with a top 6 and bottom 6.
25 Jun 2022 09:30:40
Here is a personal view on the Glazers for what it's worth.
I used to work as an accountant for ENWL the electricity distribution company that services the NW of England.
We were bought by an American investment company in the same way that MU were. It was a similar leveraged buy out where they use the asset value of the company to borrow debt against it and they rely on the annual dividends to provide income whilst also hoping for an increase in the asset value of the company making it a more sellable asset in the longer term.
They have no emotional attachment to the club whatsoever, so long as it pays its dividends (over and above what they would make from sticking the money in a bank account etc) then that's great for them.
Most investment companies have experts in each investment stream so they can maximize dividends/ asset value in the medium term thus ensuring its a successful investment. However the EPL is an unknown territory for the Glazers and they have royally f**ked it up, sure they still have the dividends but from all accounts the asset value of MU has shrunk over the last few years.
I don't think selling the company is an option to them at this point in time due to its lower asset value.
Personally (and I am a right wing capitalist lol) I think leveraged buyouts are an abhorrent way to conduct business and would want to see them banned.
Good luck in getting rid of these parasites but don't hold your breath guys, even as an LFC fan it gives me zero pleasure to see these people holding your club to ransom.
1.) 25 Jun 2022 13:10:19
Where’s all the Glazer apologist’s to explain to the Liverpool supporter why he’s wrong?! Oh The irony!
2.) 25 Jun 2022 14:03:47
DLIB I have not encountered one Glazer apologist on this site.
3.) 25 Jun 2022 14:15:25
DLIB, I don't honestly think I've ever seen a Glazer apologist on here.
I've seen a few realists who don't live in a fairy land where someone empties their life's earnings out to buy a the club for 2bn+ then spend a further 1bn of their own money on a state of the art new stadium, while also dipping into their personal account to buy a 4th 100m signing each window. Someone who doesn't have the audacity to take dividends out of their own business. Just someone to own and fund the club out of the goodness of their own heart.
The reality is simple, if the club had won 6 of the last 10 titles and a hat full of domestic cups and perhaps a UCL title or two then the fans wouldn't give two rubbishs that they just paid themselves 11m in dividends.
The only reason we haven't been able to win trophies is due to who is making the decisions at the club and nothing to do with what money is going out.
For all the issues people think about how much money is leaving the club, here's the reality.
Spurs first team squad wage bill is 67m a year.
Arsenal is 81m a year.
City's is 129m a year.
Liverpool's is 137m a year.
Chelsea's is 148m a year.
Manchester United's is currently at 196m a year.
We pay our squad more than both Man City and Spurs COMBINED.
Let that sink in for a second. We pay our players more than the league champions and the fourth combined.
We talk about the new money that City and Chelsea have, how their owners spend cash and allow them the funds to become great sides.
Yet our owners massively outspend them in terms of wages and outspend them in terms of transfer fees paid.
Where our owners do let things slide is in terms of investment in the Stadium and training ground. Yet who is to say that money wouldn't have been there to spend on upgrades if so much hadn't been wasted on transfer fees and wages for players who aren't good enough and don't fit into an overarching plan/ vision.
Over the last 10 years we have spent between 700-800m MORE than Man City on wages.
There's a new stadium if we wanted one.
We've also spent around 400m more on players transfer fees.
There's the new training ground if we wanted one.
That's with all the debt repayments and dividends still leaving the club just as they have.
our problem isn't having enough money, but what to do with it and who to entrust with it.
So yeah I'm not a fan of the Glazers, I'd rather someone else owned the club. I blame them for the poor running of the club as ultimately it is their responsibility over who they put in charge to run things.
The reality though is they aren't going anywhere and if anyone else took over just as much money if not more would leave the club in debt repayment and dividends.
I just want the club run properly, to shed the label of amateurs, to cut the wage bill and better spend the money, to have a plan and a vision and bring in the right people to make that happen.
In theory there is nothing stopping that happening under the Glazers, and maybe the shock of seeing the asset value of the club plummet might be wake up call to make them sit up and change things for the better.
In reality I'll believe it when I see it.
4.) 25 Jun 2022 14:53:18
Shappy right on cue. I despair!
5.) 25 Jun 2022 16:03:42
Okay DLIB, how much more money should the Glazers spend?
Would another 1.4bn of signings make us any better than the last 1.4bn worth.
Should we go and buy Mings from Villa for 80m, would that make you happy?
How about we double the wage bill to 400m a year. Give Ronaldo 1m a week, and give Maguire and co a big pay rise.
People complain that the Glazers taking money out is the problem but conveniently forget (willful ignorance) that no club in world football has spent more money on transfers in the past 10 years.
Not PSG, not Chelsea and not City.
While no team in the EPL spends anywhere near what we spend on wages.
The problem isn't that our owners don't spend money, they do. They just spend it very poorly.
If City can win 6 EPL titles in 10 years, and Liverpool can make 3 UCL finals in 5 years spending less than us on both wages and transfers then we can surely do it with the money we have available. Regardless of how much goes on debt and dividends.
I don't want the Glazers in charge, they have shown incompetence. Yet I'm not foolish enough to believe there are plenty of other better options.
Who do you want to own the club? Viably.
Who do you think has the money, and has the know-how to run the club as you think it should be run?
Name them, come on.
6.) 25 Jun 2022 16:21:31
Dlib who are the glazers apologists?
I don't know of any on here.
Why do you despair? Is it because somebody has the gaul to and audacity to hold an opinion different to yours?
The glazers are going to continue to do what they have done for years. They are not obliged to do anything else they own the club the sooner you get your head around that the better.
It's a business and a profit centre nothing more than that, so from their point of view that's the most important thing. You may not like it but that's the way it is.
Nobody like it but if you want or expect too much different or change then your going to be disappointed and frustrated.
7.) 25 Jun 2022 16:40:52
Shappy makes a fascinating point about our incredibly high wages compared to others and still being appreciably more than even City despite our lack of recent success. Like many, I would’ve loved to have been a fly-on-the-wall at Ten Hag’s interview. Stylistically from what I’ve seen and read he looks a combination of Guardiola in possession and Klopp out of it (likely way too simplistic a view I know) . But I wonder what Ten Hag said in terms of his ability and vision in developing a team from the ground up and the youth team. That’s surely where the Glazers mind is now. They’ve tried the giving managers some of the money they need and trusted them to buy wisely but it’s been a disaster, albeit over 4 permanent managers now. Their asset isn’t as valuable as it once was and risking ‘doubling down’ on us with even more inflated transfer budget and associated wages clearly not in their thinking. I suspect Ten Hag’s brief may be budget for 2 ‘stars’ annually but any additional needs of the team have to be homegrown to eventually start to reduce that huge wage bill.
Interesting times ahead. Think we can forget silverware for another few years but not as though the trophy room has been running out of duraglit in last few seasons as is!
8.) 25 Jun 2022 16:53:12
Shappy - The Glazers have done absolutely nothing for the football Club other than leveraged it’s own assets, plunged it into millions of debt and traded on its previous history and success for the sole purpose of making money.
They have no discernible plan, vision or even appetite to bring success back to the football Club which ironically is how they still print all their money simply by trading on our illustrious history, previous success and tradition. They have failed to invest properly in the infrastructure of the Club meaning we now have substandard training facilities and the stadium once one of the best and most iconic in the world now needs urgent modernisation. (Not too dissimilar to the first team) .
Spurs recently invested over £1b in their new stadium.
Liverpool are about to redevelop the Anfield Road Stand. They expanded and redeveloped their main stand 5 or 6 years ago and they also moved into a new training facility last year.
City have built a massive new training complex in recent years. It helped to regenerate parts of East Manchester in the process. They expanded the South Stand a few years ago. They are also building a new 23,500 seater entertainment arena next to the Etihad.
I could go on and on but you get the picture.
Utd have been at Carrington since 2000 and no major investment has been made at Old Trafford since 2005-06 when the NW and NE quadrants were finished.
In case you hadn’t noticed the Club hasn’t won a single trophy in 5 years. We are entering the 10th year without a title, yet the Glazers still take their dividends.
On the back of the worst premier league season in our history and in the midst of our 4th rebuild in 10 years the first thing the Glazers did was take another £11m out of the Club whilst the amateurs haggle over FDJ.
There are no excuses the Glazers are very bad for Manchester United end of story.
9.) 25 Jun 2022 17:30:01
DLIB tbh I’ve only read the last line of that- and once again no one will dispute they are very bad for us.
10.) 25 Jun 2022 17:40:43
DLIB, the Glazers do have a plan, it might not be a plan you'd be happy with but rest assured they have a plan. They just haven't felt the need to share it with the fans.
They are investors, they bought the club to make money. They have made money.
What might concern them now though is the falling asset value.
I'd imagine the plan was something like leveraged buy-out, maximise income, earn money while the asset increases in value then sell for an inflated price.
Even today at the current valuation if they sold the club they'd pocket well over 1bn, probably close to 2bn after taking into account the debt.
Not bad considering the bought the club on borrowed money, never dipping their hands into their own pocket.
They haven't invested in the infrastructure this is true. Maybe they never intended to, or maybe they needed to funnel so much towards the playing staff in terms of transfer fees and wages that they couldn't afford to do both.
Spurs spent a huge amount on a new stadium, they went into debt to do that.
City have invested in the local area, but then their model is very different. They are trying to drum up good publicity, while they need to create a club from scratch. Their stadium is half empty most weeks. They need to invest locally to create new fans. They bought the club for 210m or just over one years wages at our club. It cost 800m to buy United back in 2005.
The Glazers certainly haven't been good for United. But you are yet to name me who would be a good owner in your learned opinion.
11.) 25 Jun 2022 18:13:12
Shappy - Man Utd have always spent big money on player transfers all the way back to the likes of Dennis Law before Bryan Robson, Gary Pallister, Roy Keane, Andy Cole, Juan Sebastian Veron, Rio Ferdinand and Wayne Rooney all arrived at Old Trafford for record fees in one form or another.
We are one of the most successful Clubs because we spend a lot of money. Praising the Glazers for spending money just isn’t a persuasive argument in my opinion and they’ve hardly spent anything in terms of infrastructure.
I agree they do have a plan which is to trade off our previous success to line their own pockets and hopefully make an eye watering amount of money when they finally decide to sell the Club. Unfortunately that has nothing to do with making us successful on the pitch.
To be honest I have no idea who might buy Manchester Utd but I’m convinced there wouldn’t be a lack of interest should the Club be put up for sale. I don’t think we could get much worse than the Glazers and I’d certainly be prepared to take a gamble.
12.) 25 Jun 2022 20:01:36
DLIB, it would be a gamble. Maybe we end up with asset strippers, sell off the stadium for redevelopment and sign a deal to lease the Emptyhad every other week from City for our home games.
Maybe the new owners won't agree to spend 1.4bn on transfer, maybe they want to reduce the wage bill.
Sell off high earners and replace them with academy kids or cheaper players from the Championship.
Maybe they will only spend 30-40m a year on transfers rather than an average of 140m.
Maybe they will pay themselves much larger dividends with all the money that isn't going on wages and transfers fees. Potentially and extra 200m a season out the club into the owners pockets.
There is always someone worse. That isn't a good reason to keep the Glazers. Yet if you can't think of a better owner even though you are sure there would be plenty of interest, then doesn't that just prove there are just as many potentially bad owners in the fans eyes?
07 Mar 2022 09:40:38
I thought he was free to go this summer so not sure how it matters. Can't believe you will offer him a new contract?
06 Mar 2022 19:42:39
Sorry Tim I just wanted to let it go but it proved impossible. does Fred really have his own weeks and will he play better during this period?
18 Feb 2022 08:51:18
To be fair I have never seen Maguire with a turkey wedged onto his head?
18 Feb 2022 08:49:08
Why do you need both RR and a DoF, too many chiefs for me?
14 Oct 2022 05:23:38
As an LFC fan I can find no fault in your post Hales.
12 Aug 2022 08:10:03
For a Utd fan to describe Brentford away as difficult is shocking really.
18 Jul 2022 09:27:59
Come on Ed014, he has potential but is unproven in any decent league.
To say he is better than JM, LVG and maybe even DM is optimistic. I will agree he is better than OGS however.
{Ed014's Note - which one of those had United playing the kind of football Ajax did in the Champions League.
He knows how to play the game, yes it’s a step up and no it’s not going to be easy but I’ll say again, where United want to go, he’s the best they’ve had since Fergie left.
Don’t kid yourself that JM wasn’t a busted flush albeit he was honest about the players, DM utter shite and LVG another past his sell by date.
My dog would have been better than OGS and I don’t even have a dog!
16 Jul 2022 08:28:52
Keef do you have small feet or an extremely large todger?
23 Jun 2022 19:47:20
Thanks GDS2.
Yes I am an LFC fan who went through 30 years of hurt before we finally won the EPL.
I try to always post objectively as everyone on here seem like good guys who genuinely care for their club.
I agree that you don't know how Nunez will do in the EPL but the point was we identified a target and went 100% for it.
I just think you guys need to adopt a similar approach.